@OAR:
backthrow -> stLK -> njump HP
Isnt safe jump against 3F shoryuken. (or I didnt success in 123123 tries)
I’ve tested vs Ryu
Gief’s Running Bear Grab says hello lol.
Sad thing is, I’ve actually seen the Running Bear used more often in matches than level 5 hayate. I’ve seen 2 of them used (successfully) and I’ve NEVER seen a successful level 5 hayate. Doesn’t mean RB isn’t useless though.
So the new safe jump is st.lk jump attack after a Backthrow?
No, it’s forward dash, neutral jump HK.
Ya I forgot dash was 16 frames too. Lk would work as well wouldn’t it since their both 16 frames?
s.LK is 15 frames. Regardless, forward dash moves you closer and is lenient compared to “linking” a normal after the throw.
Hey, I didn’t get a chance to do extensive testing, and I’m still not home. I didn’t even have time to reedit my post to say that I only recorded it like 6 times and got it to work twice. I figured the fact that I got it to work twice on Ken’s HP DP on this terrible HD TV would mean you guys would easily execute it with some tries. I also had no idea it was frame perfect, where I was just throwing darts. Lucky guess with the s.lk on my behalf. In a nutshell, though, when I got it to work successfully, the jn.hp tagged Ken in all positions (crouching, holding back, holding forward, etc) and when he HP DP’d, Makoto blocked. One time when I recorded it, the jn.hp whiffed entirely on Ken, and the other times where it failed, I just got DPd. I didn’t bother testing it on Ryu because Ken’s HP DP is better in every way (range, far iframes, etc) in my opinion, but in hindsight I should have tested it on Ryu’s MP DP. I haven’t really done much since.
My empty jump U2 setup off of backthrow on twins no longer works. However, there are some setups I found with a delay in AE that will probably be frame perfect now making them much easier, so once I fix the DC port of my laptop, I’ll try some out. Despite how dissapointed I was with her backthrow changes, I am now pretty excited to find more setups because now it seems final AND I have the option of an easy-breezy safejump setup off of the same buildup for tsurugi nonsense. I tested out my oroshi >tsurugi setups in matches and from what I can tell by reactions from players and friends and replays, they all still work (the ones I used).
I would also like to point out that where before backthrow > c.hk > j.hp crossup had a frame or two delay, now it should be MUCH easier to execute with high consistency on the characters it worked on like Sagat and T Hawk. There is SO much work to be done with Makoto, to the point where I feel like the character is in a new-born state of infancy. While it’s tedious at times, the payoff is great.
Edit:
And yes… Mashing dash after a backthrow is INFINITELY easier than perfectly timing a s.lk after a backthrow, which is also why I’ve favored finding setups that start with dash. You can input dash twice or so and you’re guaranteed to get it, where perfectly timing a s.lk with this new delay is rough for right now. Even after getting used to the delay, the timing will still be super rough.
And to VRyu again, I’m starting to think that perfectly timing the s.lk after backthrow isn’t the only factor. I think the jn.hp must be pressed at a perfect time too, now making what seemed like a great setup at the time under the assumption that SD will make it much easier seem like a complete waste of time.
Especially considering that backthrow > Dash > empty neutral jump > c.lk+c.lp is a PERFECT and EASY setup to delay crouch tech against 3frame DP.
I was also doing backthrow > dash > empty neutral juimp > LK karakusa. It can be thrown, but it catches backwalk, and if they do a reversal or AA timing DP, Makoto blocks every time instead of karakusa. The delay crouch tech is a much more sure-thing because of teching, being safe to DP, hitting low after an empty jump, and setting up OS for backdash, but I just wanted to say that karakusa bit because I have used it with tons of success against 3 frame DP on wakeup.
Just like in every iteration, you can delay anything. With Makoto, you can replace karakusa or crouch tech with s.mp if you want after the empty neutral jump, and if they DP you’ll block. The slower the reversal though, the harder. This setup is just super convenient against 3 framers where doing a jump normal meaty is convenient against 4+frame reversals.
just a question, i cant test it because my xbox is broken =(
do makotos cross up/unblockable axe kick setups on characters waking up after backthrow and oroshi still work like in ae?
Off of oroshi, everything seemed fine. Off of backthrow, I’ve found a new setup up above, but a lot of the old setups I tried still works. THey just have mixed results. Like, before, the super easy dash s+mk unblockable axe on fei and the crew is now a crossup only. So, I imagine the timing on the tsurugi will need adjusting, while I find more setups and test older setups.
Also ,I edited my post with a bit more than a normal edit. I probably should’ve just posted again but i wanted to avoid clutter.
I haven’t played in quite a bit.
Anyone mind telling me a few combos of hers that are “upgraded” with TC1?
How does this not get you thrown or attacked? How have you made your opponents block in such a situation?
You’re basically doing an empty jump into 10+ frame Karakusa, in a situation where no one should just block for such an extended period of time. In my experience, people do one of two things to the other two main tricky parts to a safe jump: Late Tsurugi either gets a hit (very rarely blocked) or gets reversaled, and empty jump delayed crouch tech or throw either blocks a reversal or techs a throw. Not much in between without prior mind games and training your opponents.
I was practicing safe jumping after backthrow. Before ver 2012 I didn´t have much of a problem. I did it this way:
Backthrow > F+MP > J.MK
Now in ver 2012, I have not been able to do it successfully not even once. Did something change that didn’t notice?
I realize you just came in here to find your answer real quick, but we’ve been talking about that for the majority of the last few posts. Yes, they added 4 frames to Makoto’s recovery to make it very awkward to use moves other than dashes and jumps after the throw. Now the 4 frame safe jump is Forward dash, j.HK.
It’s only really awkward due to our unfamiliarity with it, we’ve been conditioned to the 60f recovery off of backthrow due to it being the norm for almost 2 years. I do like this change not only because it gives us an easy mode safe jump setup but gives us a chance to explore new technology.
And also, merry Christmas from Australia.
Hey, you’re not delaying the karakusa for the length of a DP, so I don’t think you should add +3 to the 7 frames. Or, anything for that matter. The setup seemingly gives Makoto perfect natural delay timing against 3framers when she lands with anything. And by tons of success, that’s just when I use it. I usually spend a round conditioning my opponent with key situations for the things I want to do or things I might need to do. Or, I’ll do early, and if I get hit out of the karakusa, then I don’t consider it a major loss early on instead of when it would have mattered, which also makes the opponent falsely confident with his ‘options’ in that situation in the future. I would say add a frame to it, if the feeling of the setup is any indicator.
Of course a lot of conditioning is going on =P Makoto can be played solid, but establishing her meta can make things totally overwhelming
You’re not starting it until after 3 frames at least, so it is at least +3 to the 7. Otherwise you wouldn’t be able to block the DP. If you empty jump and do a Karakusa any time before frame 43 (whereas a neutral jump hits at frame 40), you WILL eat a reversal DP.
About the getting thrown part, if you do HCB+lk~lp (plink lk with lp) then you’ll tech a wake-up throw. Of course if the opponent delays the uppercut/throw you’ll get hit.
and because I got bored, here’s a video: (note this is using pc which doesn’t have AE but the seetup is basically the same)
[media=youtube]q5dDlH0D0FQ[/media]
Not really a question, and more of a thank-you note to everyone here for REALLY helping me step up my Mak game. When the resources you have on a character is huge enough to make you switch mains from Yun, of all people, and putting up a ranked 14-win streak, never before having achieved more than 7 in a row, I think the community deserves more than a bit of credit for it.
Although… How many of you guys do an NJ mixup post-hard knockdown into either empty jump, Karakusa, or late Tsurugi? I picked that mind game up from a local Mak player, and it has proven brutal. Trains them to stop backdashing as the Tsurugi hits most of them, then also makes them uneasy to reversal in the event you empty jump. Obviously bad against grapplers since all options get 360’d, but most everybody else has to guess as much as you do from the mixup, since you can tsurugi, empty jump into block, karakusa, or normal throw. Has won me a whole bunch of matches, since most guys backdash the first couple of times into a Tsurugi into an EX Hayate.
I enjoy playing those types of games with people. Safe jump os’, empty jump grab, late tsurugi, safe jump light attack > karakusa there is just so much that we can do to mess with people it’s a lot of fun. I even once did an empty jump mp oroshi > super > ultra1.