It’s a forward+lk, karacanceled into a hayate cancel. I thought it would be faster and may be usefull.
Yeah it does. It just has limited usefulness because you only get < 4 airborne frames. Works with any special move so you can even make throws whiff with hayate or regular oroshi.
I thought this had been discussed twice before and both times it had been resolved that it was taken out of SSF4? At the least, in reversal situations.
Specifically in point: you used to be able to JC reversal Zangief’s Lariat to avoid throws and attacks. In SSF4, you’ll get thrown every time.
It doesn’t work if the move registers as a reversal because if it does it means you didn’t get the prejump frames. I’m not sure if they changed it between now and vanilla, but I know that now you can’t make those prejump frames invincible to anything but throws, so if you get hit by a normal instead of a throw on those frames you’re gonna take the hit. So it does work, but if you think you have a good enough read on your opponent to take that kind of a risk, you’re better off using tsuguri or something.
Hey guys I just remembered something that might “now” be useful in v.2012
What it is is that strong>strong can link into short>forward
[media=youtube]pSs6295LXfU[/media]
I came up with this when I first got super but when I found this forum I realized that I was leaving valuable opportunities on the table with the strong>strong>ex oroshi or strong>strong>ex hayate, so I dropped that short>forward link like a bad habit (and it was!)
BUT …now with v.2012’s ability to add ex hayate to the end of her target combo…I figured this may get us just a bit more damage (have no idea how damage scaling will effect it)
What do ya think?
Not QUITE what you’re looking for, but you might find this interesting:
So could you do fierce feint strong TC ex hayate?
the biggest problem is that you cannot P-link stLK (except with “back” button…but that sucks).
so:
stHP HC stMP = stHP HC stLP > stHP HC stLK
in term of difficulty
Quick question:
What do you guys tend to do when you hit with a MP.Oroshi?
Combo I often do is this: Backthrow => Dash, Dash => Meaty MP.Oroshi => cr.LK => lp.Hayate
But was wondering if there are better follow ups to Oroshi?
You’re +4 when hitting a crouching opponent, +5 if hitting a standing. If you’re sure it hit after the first active frame or when they are standing then you could go for S.MP > Hayate. It’s probably better to just go with C.LK > Hayate (could be going EX here) unless you know they are standing when they get hit.
wow, i never thought about that, i just always went for st. mp after a meaty setup. now i know you can’t hit crouching with st mp after mp oroshi.
Well, if it hits meaty then you can combo into S.MP even if they are crouching.
After a blocked chicken wing, what is my best reply?
P.s. I hate the fact that it can cross up
“Best” reply is a very late crouch tech while looking for a neutral jump, or a backdash buffering Fukiage to counter another CW or jump in. I think you can actually crouch tech with c.LP+c.LK+c.HK to hit another CW, but you’re GUARANTEED to get hit if he attacks late. It’s a tough guessing situation, because throw > 99% of what Makoto can do, 3-frame c.LK > a hell of a lot better than Makoto’s f+LP, late FK > late teching and any reversal, and you always have to avoid getting at all predictable because he has all the options.
Ugh I hate fei… Anyways after a meaty oroshi on a few of the cast you can hit a standing hp after pretty easily.
That’s gay…all I can do is wait for him to roll all over me. But sure I’ll try the late tech
i can’t open ppl up with her…its freaking hard when i lose to ppl who only true mesurement of skill is pressing a buttons when they have better hit comfrims like lp lp lp into what the fuck ever.
i seriously don’t think im grasping her basics. i read the 1st page and i thought i had a gist of it but i guess not if its been almost 3 months and i feel like im not improving. i learn to buffer her pokes, i learn tsurugi, i learn her frame traps like s.MP, s.MP idk wtf am im missing here?
fuck someone give me a training routine maybe thats how i can start improving…
What’s getting you? Getting rushed down, guessing wrong on your offense, keep guessing wrong on wake-up, losing to certain tactics naturally effective against Makoto (FA, neutral jumps, throws)?
its alot of things but if i had to say what was my problem with her…
getting pressured: since she don’t have any “gtfo me” moves expect ex karakusa and ex oroshi…when im getting pressured ppl go for block strings or crossups…when they cross up i try to fukiage but my timing is so horrible with that that i do it to late and get hit comfrim. i also lose to grabbers. i try to crouch tech throws but i can’t react to random ppl.
dealing pressure: im not good at this (least not yet) when i go on the offense. i try to go for frame traps in my block strings like F+MP or S.MP but that can only get u so far when your fighting ppl that can block. and when i go for ex oroshi its like a 50/50 guess when they’re blocking. tsurugi never worked with me. i try to put tsurigi in my block strings and they block of mash.
spacing/footsies: i been trying to play patient with her…when a character spam fireballs for zoning i don’t FA dash or any thing like that. i block. i try to wait till i can get close or do a HK tsurugi. however its times i lose to spacing…when i try cr. mp at someone footsies range i get punished…s.MP gets beaten then i throw it out. i lose to sagats, rose’s, feis and all other characthers good at this.
karakusa: i can’t land it enough…nuff said lol
honestly i don’t say all or ask alot of questions this cause i feel like this is stuff i can do in the training room and i don’t want to come off as complaining. im just frustrated that im trying to learn her and i see no improvements in my game. i try to think of questions to ask but idk why im losing most of the time…thats why i just say its because of my lack of fundamentals or i don’t go hard in the lab. but anyway thats how i feel is my problems.
Cross ups are easy to see, if it’s not a dive kick character or one that can change how long they are in the air for (Adon, Viper) just let it rip, Otherwise just start blocking them and backdash away once they have landed. When they are pressuring you on the ground just block and wait for a time where you can FA back dash away or something, Oroshi is slow and Karakusa is risky as well.
Are you using normal throws much? Chances are they aren’t feeling threatened by throws enough to try to crouch tech so they just don’t press buttons for you to frame trap? If they are just blocking then they’ll probably be free to a Karakusa. Maybe you should try the blockakusa (mix in some Hayate Cancels so you can react to how they try to get away from blockakusa)?
Do you use other moves besides C.MP and S.MP when you try to out-footsie a character? How far away from you when you’re trying these things? Do you stay outside of your moves range and aim to counter-poke with C.MP buffered into Hayate (if they jump over the C.MP you have enough time to Fukiage on reaction)?
Sagat is hard for me (after all the work getting in, one wrong guess and I’m full screen again). Rose isn’t bad, surprisingly easy if you can reaction/prediction Tsurugi that annoying slide (at least from my experience).
Fei is hard (but fun I guess) for both in my opinion. At least when I played a nice Fei a while ago, the games were intense. Had to be on my toes at all times thinking and reacting.
It’s hard to land if you haven’t got your opponent afraid of Makotos normals. Hell, someone I play quite a bit and knows I didn’t really use Karakusa that much is still (I use it a bit more now though) scared of it. He was scared of Karakusa even though I never really gave him a reason to fear it.
Don’t be scared to ask questions or anything. The Makoto forum is in general a friendly one and will try to help. I have no idea if any of this would help. :\
When I play best (the style that works for me - I didn’t use it too much because I was taught thinking it was ‘turtling’ when it’s really just patience) is when I build a wall using Makotos (or Abels when I was first learning SFIV) normals, anti-airing (not just with Fukiage but with all normals where needed) and stopping anything on the ground. Makotos walk speed works perfectly with the wall, slowly moving forward. If you can make it known that they can’t get out of their slowly shrinking room then doors of opportunity open up.