Ah yes your are correct. Hasty in my calculations i was! I was calculating the Hayate cancelling instead of the 2 extra active frames for non meaty situations… which incorrectly adds 2 frame to my frame advantage. Gotcha.
Either way, the combos should still work no? And +3 after a HP HC sounds real good to me lol.
EDIT -
Man for real, though, you are killing the profile pic game. Thats 2 for 2 lol. I think yours is very close to vryu’s in terms of eye appeal which is saying a lot. Good job man lol
Wait, shouldn’t FADCing meaty moves take away from frame advantage, assuming the total recovery of left-over active frames and recovery is less than 19? For instance, MP Oroshi perfectly meaty FADCed should be +1 on hit (15 frames of recovery turned into 19 frames = -4 on hit or block), but normally it should be +6 on FADC (5 active frames left over + 15 frames = 20 - 19 FADC frames = +1 frame advantage on hit or block).
If that’s true, perfectly meaty s.HP xx HC should be -1, +3 (24 frames of recovery turned into 16 = +8 on hit or block) compared to +1, +5 (2 extra active frames + 24 recovery = 26 -16 = +10 on hit or block).
You must not look at recovery frames when cancelling, but only hit/blockstun.
MP oroshi has 25 hitstun (standing). If you FADC (-19), it gives you +6, which is correct.
Hayate cancel is the same, but you need to take out 16 frames instead of 19.
stHP has 21hitstun, if you cancel at first or last active frame, its still 21hitstun.
And since you cancel it, recovery frames are not taken in consideration.
To understand, imagine you have a move with 1000000recovery frames and 1frame hitstun. Even if you hayate cancel it, you cant combo because opponent is stun during 1 frame
V-Ryu, first of all I totally respect your Makoto skills. I appreciate your little explanation there, helps a lot from an old 3S player. Robot Makoto has also been giving me some good advice.
What is your general approach to Makoto, what is your mindset in the match?
OOOOOOH I see. So the meaty attacks we were using before dont’ use Hayate Cancel. it just goes directly into combo. So it doesn’t change how the move recovers. If we use HC, it recovers exactly the same as if we hit it normal instead of meaty because the Hayate cancel recovery frames (16? i thought it was 12 lol) take the place of whatever other recovery frames the move had when it was not cancelled with a Hayate.
So basically, we can’t add a second move to the calculation for the meaty of the first move, even if that second move whiffs. Makes sense. Ah i tried to cheat! lol. Knew it sounded too good though. Oh well… back to the drawing board…
fffffffffuuuuuuuuuu…There’s so much to learn I think my head’s gonna explode. Any idea when the Option Select section is going to go up? I hate to say it, but even with her buffs, her defense still sucks. I need all the help I can get.
BTW, great job so far, Mossad. This thread is f’n awesome. I essentially stopped playing when AE was released so I’m reaaaaaaally rusty and your little project is bringing me up to speed with the quickness.
Your question is kinda broad, dood. What exactly in the match-up are you having trouble with? If you want a really in-depth critique, post a replay.
PLEASE don’t just thank me. I mean I just tried to come up with a way to make things a little better. there are several guys working on that thread. Robot Makoto does a lot of work, and so does vryu, Zuranthus and veege… I mean too many to name. Its a group effort. So thanks to all of you guys!
Good point. Thanks to all the contributors who make it possible for me to actually play instead of spending all my time in the lab figuring this shit out. As one of the older guys on this forum, my time is extremely limited so having a thread like this is a Vryu-send.
Did a little rearranging. a little adding, a little taking away. Man i’m tired now. I’ll get back an explain what i did but i need a break lol. Most notably, though, I started adding info that is still relevant from super. Most of this information is in one of the advanced tactics posts. I’ll do a little more organizing a bit later…
Let me know if I need to change anything, especially if it is something that doesn’t work anymore.
Hard to say. Fought a good one a while ago. It’s hard for me to get out of pressure against him. Dive kicks are my main problem, particularly in the corner. I try to use EX-Kara, but I don’t have any meter, or I used up all of it. I don’t exactly have any ways to approach him. I always just stand there while he moves. Don’t know what particular normals I should use against his and his dive kick. That should be it.
Well, it depends on how much time you have to work with, and what you’re punishing. Assuming you mean punishing a somewhat unsafe move without time to do an IA Tsurugi, FA, or jumping attack, it’s generally s.HP xx HP/EX Hayate into corner combo unless you’re point blank, in which case it’s s.HP xx Hayate Cancel, s.MP xx MP/EX Hayate into corner combo. There are times when you can land s.MP, s.MP xx MP/EX Hayate and not s.HP xx HC, s.MP, in which case that does more than s.HP xx whatever.
With two meters, you can FADC HP Hayate and combo into s.LP, s.MP xx MP Hayate for a bit of extra damage.
If you want to beef up your damage and have three meters, you can FADC the EX Hayate into MP Fukiage on what IIRC is most of the cast. With full meter, EX Hayate FADC MP Fukiage, EX Tsurugi is the most you can do without Ultra.
Fixed the safe jump setups. EX Oroshi, backdash, jump forward doesn’t work anymore. Backthrow, s.MK, neutral jump is a 5 frame safe jump, not a 4 frame safe jump.
