AEMAKOTO Guide and Q&A: Ask all your questions here!

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
821

Hello guys. I would have posted these findings sooner, but my account (same name) became a guest due to inactivity (couldn’t remember pw :frowning: ). Anyhow, I guess somewhere in the middle of Super, my net went out and I decided to hit the lab with Makoto for a couple hours. I found crossup/unblockable Tsurugi setups with Mak against every character, some being very consistent, some a bit trickier, atop a handful of other stuff.

Now, before I post them, some of them are probably known due to how basic some of them are, and I did steal the empty j.hp setup from Shiro as the premise for my lab-hitting, but the rest I grinded out against each character. If some of them are known, I apologize and hope the more obscure or unknown one’s make up for it.

Alphabetical List:

Spoiler

Abel:
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint (with HK) > walk forward > LK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.lp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.mk > MK Tsurugi

Adon:
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > S.HK > LK Tsurugi (can reverse)
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > c.mk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > F+Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi

Akuma:
Empty Crossup Fierce > Jump Forward MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate > LK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > S.HK > LK Tsurugi (can reverse)
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > c.mk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > F+Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi

Balrog:
Empty Crossup Fierce > Jump Forward MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate > LK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > S.HK > LK Tsurugi (can reverse)
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > c.mk > MK Tsurugi

Bison:
Empty Crossup Fierce > Jump Forward MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate > LK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > S.HK > LK Tsurugi (can reverse)
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > c.mk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > F+Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (Unblockable)

Blanka:
Backthrow > Dash > LP Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi

Cammy:
Backthrow > dash > s.mk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > S.HK > LK Tsurugi (can reverse)
Backthrow > F+Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi

Chun Li:
Backthrow > dash > LP Hayate Feint (with HK) > LK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > S.HK > LK Tsurugi (can reverse)
Backthrow > F+Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi

Cody:
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > S.HK > LK Tsurugi (can reverse)
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > c.mk > MK Tsurugi

Dan:
Empty Crossup Fierce > Jump Forward MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate > LK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > c.mk > MK Tsurugi

Dee Jay:
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.lp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.mk > MK Tsurugi

Dhalsim:
Backthrow > dash > s.mk > MK Tsurugi

Dudley:
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > S.HK > LK Tsurugi (can reverse)

El Fuerte:
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > c.mk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > F+Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (Unblockable)

Fei Long:
Backthrow > dash > s.mk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > F+Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi

Gen:
Empty Crossup Fierce > Jump Forward MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.lp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.mk > MK Tsurugi

Gief:
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.lp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > F+Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (Unblockable)

Gouken:
Backthrow > LP Hayate > LK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > c.mk > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)

Guile:
Empty Crossup Fierce > Jump Forward MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.lp s.hk/s.mk > MK Tsurugi (Hard to make unblockable)
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.mk > MK Tsurugi

Guy:
Empty Crossup Fierce > MK Tsurugi Lower To The Ground (crouching)
Backthrow > F+MP F+LK (jump forward slight pause) MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > c.mk > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)

Hakan:
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > Dash > c.lk > MK Tsurugi

Honda:
Backthrow > s.mp c.lp > MK tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > s.mp > LP Hayate Feint > c.lp > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > s.hk > s.lp/c.lk > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.lp s.lp > MK Tsurugi (might be c.lp on the first lp)

Ibuki:
Empty Crossup Fierce > MK Tsurugi Lower To The Ground
Backthrow > S.MP > LP Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > F+Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi

Juri:
Empty Crossup Fierce > Jump Forward MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > S.HK > LK Tsurugi (can reverse)
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > c.mk > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)

Ken:
Empty Crossup Fierce > Jump Forward MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate > LK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > S.HK > LK Tsurugi (can reverse)
Backthrow > F+Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (Unblockable)

Makoto:
Empty Crossup Fierce > MK Tsurugi Lower To The Ground
Backthrow > S.MP > LP Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)

Rose:
Empty Crossup Fierce > Jump Forward MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.lp > MK Tsurugi

Rufus:
Empty Crossup Fierce > MK Tsurugi Higher Above the Ground
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > S.HK > LK Tsurugi (can reverse)
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > c.mk > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)

Ryu:
Empty Crossup Fierce > Jump Forward MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate > LK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > S.HK > LK Tsurugi (can reverse)
Backthrow > F+Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (Unblockable)

Sagat:
Empty Crossup Fierce > MK Tsurugi Higher Above the Ground
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.lp > MK Tsurugi high/late in the jump arc

Sakura:
Backthrow > dash > s.mk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > F+Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi

Seth:
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.lp > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable, even with LK Tsurugi)
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.lp > MK Tsurugi high/late in the jump arc (Unblockable)
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.mk > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)

T Hawk:
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.lp > MK Tsurugi high/late in the jump arc
Backthrow > s.lp s.lp s.lk > MK Tsurugi

Vega:
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.lp > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.mk > MK Tsurugi

Viper:
Empty Crossup Fierce > Jump Forward MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > F+LK > c.mk > LK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.mk > MK Tsurugi

I deeply apologize for some of the setups in here that require dashing, and upon request, I’d gladly find more applicable setups. At the time, however, they worked (super), and now that her dash is faster, the timing is a bit off. They might still work online due to… Well, lag, but offline, I wouldn’t count on the dash setups 100% anymore.

Also, for anyone who may want it, I’m going to include the notes I was taking as I started this process. This stuff isn’t too important if you just want setups, and if you just want setups, I recommend just reading the above list.

Original Notes (This is really just my thinking, and it includes a few setups not in the master list due to how early of a draft it is):

Spoiler

Makoto Crossup MK Tsurugi Setups Off Of:

Back Throw:

Empty Crossup Fierce > Jump Forward MK Tsurugi .
Works On Easily:
Akuma
Ryu
Ken
Gen
Dan
Juri
Viper*
Bison
Guile
Balrog
Rose

Empty Crossup Fierce > MK Tsurugi Lower To The Ground / Faster after jumping (using LK tsurugi may help):
Makoto*
Ibuki*
Guy (Crouching)

Empty Crossup Fierce > MK Tsurugi Higher Above the Ground / Later after jumping (using a dif air normal helps):
Sagat
Rufus

Back Throw > F+MP F+LK (jump forward slight pause) MK Tsurugi:
Guy

Back Throw > dash > s.mk > MK Tsurugi:
Cammy
Sim
Fei Long
Sakura

Back Throw > dash > LP Hayate Feint (with HK) > LK Tsurugi:
Chun Li

Back Throw> LP Hayate Feint (with HK) > walk forward > LK Tsurugi (this is tough):
Abel

Backthrow > LP Hayate > LK Tsurugi:
Gouken (Unblockable)
Bison
Ryu
Ken
Akuma
Dan
Balrog (Unblockable)

Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > S.HK > LK Tsurugi (Some chars can reversal this unlike most of these setups):
Dudley
Cody
Adon
Chun Li
Juri
Bison
Cammy
Balrog
Rufus
Ryu
Ken
Akuma

Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.lp > MK Tsurugi (remember not to move before you jump):
Vega (Unblockable)
Gief
Dee Jay
Seth (Unblockable) (lk tsurugi works here, and is easier)
Gen
Abel
Rose

Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.lp > MK Tsurugi high/late in the jump arc (remember not to move before you jump):
Seth (Unblockable and easier than the above setup)
Sagat
T Hawk

Backthrow > s.lp s.lp s.lk > MK Tsurugi:
T Hawk

Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > c.mk > MK Tsurugi:
Fuerte
Ryu
Ken
Akuma
Gouken (Unblockable)
Balrog
Dan
Cody
Guy (Unblockable)
Bison
Juri (Unblockable)
Rufus (Unblockable)
Adon

Backthrow > Dash > LP Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi:
Blanka

Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > Dash > c.lk > MK Tsurugi:
Hakan

Backthrow > s.mp c.lp > mk tsurugi OR Backthrow > s.mp > lp hayate feint, c.lp > mk tsurugi:
Honda (Unblockable)

Backthrow > s.hk > s.lp/c.lk > mk tsurugi:
Honda (Unblockable with the tightest spacing; Otherwise, neutral makes tsurugi whiff)

Backthrow > lp hayte feint > s.lp s.lp > mk tsurugi (might be c.lp on the first lp):
Honda

Backthrow > s.lp s.hk > mk tsurugi (you can replace s.hk with s.mk in this setup against Guile):
Guile (presumed unblockable but not confirmed as one using Guile against recording. Whiffs on neutral with slow timing)

Backthrow > F+LK > c.mk > LK Tsurugi:
Viper

Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint s.mk > MK Tsurugi:
Viper
Seth (Unblockable)
Gen
Abel
Dee Jay
Guile
Gief
Vega

Backthrow > s.MP > LP Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi:
Ibuki (Unblockable) (Confirmed)
Makoto (Unblockable)
Gief (Crouch)
T Hawk (Crouch)
Gouken (Crouch)

Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > F+MP > LK Tsurugi:
Ibuki (Crosses up and is presumed unblockable)

Backthrow > LP Hayate Lvl 1 > LK Tsurugi:
Ibuki (crosses up, and is presumed unblockable)

Backthrow > s.MK > s.lp > MK Tsurugi:
Ibuki

Backthrow > s.MK > f+lk > LK/MK Tsurugi:
Ibuki

Backthrow > c.mk > f+lk > LK Tsurugi:
Ibuki

Backthrow > MP Hayate > LK Tsurugi:
Ibuki

Now, I know this all may seem like a lot to take in without any video references, and while I didn’t record every setup that crosses up (I’m sorrrry, there are too many), I did record almost all of the ones that hit unblockable (think I forgot to record one), so if anyone needs it, I can UL it.

One more thing. I saw a pseudo safe oroshi setup posted here to beat out LP DPs, back in Super. Well, needless to say, what it did to LP DP inspired me to find a setup that worked on all DPs. It still works, despite the backdash buff. It wasn’t recorded with the best of cameras, but I’ve since got a Capcard and can rerecord it and the unblockables if anything is too hard to make out.

822

thx for your job. Marvelous.
But are you sure they are unblockable? Or do they just crossup? or can we crouch guard?

btw, any strength of hayate, or any kick you push to cancel it, have the same frames
LP Hayate Feint (with HK) = Hayate Cancel (any punch, any kick).

823

I’m positive. I tried getting ahold of you on 360 a while ago to try and get this stuff out there. =(

Not to create any confusion; The only unblockables are the ones that note out “Unblockable.” Unless noted so, they hit crossup (most of them hit crossup without Makoto actually crossing up).

I just uploaded a few examples for you:



Edit:

Also, the only reason I say LP Hayate Feint is because I just wanted to document everything how I did it at the moment, to make sure everything was exact. In most of my setups, I just hold HK post throw, and do a quick LP hayate feint for ease.

824

Added Only Ash Remains’ set-ups to the front page. With his video examples. They can be found AFTER the match-up sections because we’re running out of room in the initial posts.

Great job, OAR.

-Nuts

825

That shit is fucking ruthless. Goddamn.

826

GAD DAYUM ! Thanks a lot man , gonna try ALL of them on a friend now :smiley:

827

Nice I’m practicing these now.

828

These setups are amazing. The amount of work that must have gone into figuring all of these out is mind-blowing. The fact that Makoto has another mostly-safe okizeme option after a back throw is like a birthday party for every Makoto player in the world.

This just makes Makoto’s normal back throw a huge threat. If you think about it, they can either get hit by a Karakusa for 280+, a Tsurugi for 280+, or now a back throw for 130 and a crossup/unblockable Tsurugi that avoids reversal for 280+.

This what makes Makoto too much fun.

Awesome work and thanks for spreading the info, OAR.

829

Well to make things even better for the people who have trouble doing a dash and a normal back grab you can do it kara with st LK , gives you a little bit more range , but it catches people that walk back , keep that in mind :stuck_out_tongue:

830

s.LK Kara-throw works? Do you mean f+LK?

831

i think he means stLK kara normal throw.
I always do my throw like this

832

i’m compiling them into a movie at the moment.
Not all the setup, but the most important. To have, at least, 1 setup by character.

833

Put more music in from Illusions, please.

834

go to training mode and fight cpu ken if you wanna practice the shoryu safe jump the cpu will litterally shoryu EVERY time. I think that Cpu Deejay always does upkicks or ultra the same way if I remember right. just knock down and practice

835

Hey guys, I appreciate the appreciation. I uploaded five more of the videos, leaving just two setups out because one was a concept video that went on for about five minutes breaking down theory on unblockables (and it was done on Abel, who I didn’t find a conclusive unblockable on) and one was a setup I included on Seth but it had some loud jazz playing in the background so I didn’t want to UL it. Anyway:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IC4xjzpF2nA (Gouken)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfGeApxmSlg (Gouken)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMoW3e6rPLQ (Guy)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd8Jn3l0UAY (Juri)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd2Lsak6lsI (Rufus)

The last four are all the same setup, and it’s actually my favorite setup.

With that said, I really do like the backthrow > c.mk hayate feint tsurugi setup because it crosses up a lot of staple characters, and it’s unblockable on a consistent amount of characters. I found a setup against the wonder twins (I can’t remember which, but one of the above setups works on them) and the dbz shotos (if it works on Ryu, it’ll work on E.Ryu for sure, and I think Oni shares either Gouken or Akuma’s hitbox, but I’m not certain on that) but I never actually documented them or did them outside of match, so it’s hard to remember which one.

I also have videos of the hk tsurugi unblockables, but entirely omitted them on youtube because of their reliance on a dash in the setup.

However, I decided to take the liberty to UL two of them just so you can see what it did and still looks like if you can compensate for the dash:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcmL_f8t00Y (Ryu)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxR3xajOswI (Bison)

Also, to Vryu:

Uh, I saw your XU U2 setup against Ibuki, and ventured off a bit with it a bit. What I found (you probably know) is that it is unblockable on against a handful of characters, atop crossing up other characters. However, it has weird properties and spacing. For instance, I believe you got it working on Gief? Well, when the j.mk is NOT meaty, it doesn’t work on Gief. Which leads me to believe that with different spacings on a meaty xu.mk, her U2 will crossup or be unblockable. I mean that it’ll work on many more characters than you and I found, depending on setups. I haven’t spent a whole lot of time on it, and recorded just one setup that wasn’t meaty, and there’s no guarantees that it’ll work on as many characters as I have in mind, but this is worth noting out, and maybe you can look into it more, as will I when I get more time:

This is a copy and paste from my notepad on Mak xu/unblockable U2

Spoiler

Makoto J.mk Hit U2 Unblockable Works On:

Backthrow > s.mp s.lk j.mk U2 (not meaty but safe against DPs):

Ibuki (unblockable on block/hit) (this particular setup doesnt work on her but no matter how a j.mk lands on Ibuki, guard or hit, it’s always unblockable)
Makoto (hits crossup on block/hit)
Yun (unblockable on hit)
Yang (unblockable on hit, sometimes crossup only if you mess up the timing)
Blanka (hits crossup on hit)
Fei Long (hits unblockable on hit)

More conclusive testing needed on:
Yang, Yun, Gen, Sakura, Chun Li, Bison, Cammy, Guy, Guile, Gief, Fuerte, Fei
Adon, Rose

For the most part, it’s hard recording a meaty setup for me, because of neutral throwing off j.mk. Maybe it’s a lapse of execution on my behalf, though. I think when I wrote that I need more conclusive testing, I was referring to finding a meaty setup that wouldn’t whiff, and finding a setup that would force block so I could test that, as I didn’t get to test guard on some of them. I’ll hit the lab soon and post more stuff on this matter. It’s just time consuming testing on each character XD

Also, something really important that I forgot to mention: Those Adon setups that I had in that compilation are Super wakeup time Adon. I’m sorry, it just dawned on me entirely. :frowning:

836

in fact, crossup MK -> u2 depends on character position (if they are crouching or standing after the flash) too.

That’s the problem I had with it before :frowning:
but usually, after a crossup, opponent is crouched

837

could you explain this to me? i dont get why do u have to push PP twice

838

You don’t have to, it’s just more consistent that way. Negative edging works here instead, but PP+PP is actually kind of like PP+PP+PP+PP with negative edging.

The first PP covers the regular cancel timing, the second PP will cover the time after Makoto’s recovered from c.LK.

839

exactly.

And it works with ultra, on wakeup (need to be close)
crLK -> 236PP -> 236PPP

note that, after HP hayate, you can do normal hayate OS EX hayate too
crLK -> 236P~PP

840

Thanks to Only Ash Remains to have searched and compiled tsurugi crossup list on makoto forum@shoryuken.com

I’ve listed the most useful to have at least one by character. Some are unblockables depending on character you’re facing.

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