Get your fundamentals down first, IMO. Makoto takes skill (or a really, really long investment of time, as for me :oops:) to win against good players and against certain characters, and it’s best if you develop that skill with someone other than Makoto.
How about those resets you were talking about, and as much mixing up as possible? You know, j.HP into fake crouching cross-ups?
I started with Makoto from nothing. I played her a bit before on 3.3 against the IA and I defeated Gill with her the first time so love at first fight and so on. And I never played vs fighting games before online.
As first character on Arcade Edition, she’s one of the hardest to use. You have no out of jail moves, her AA is good but it’s very situational and character specific so it needs time to learn to use it efficiently, no cheap moves to spam…
It’s gonna be frustrating at first. But you will always feel she can be THAT strong and one perfect or a quick stun on two good guesses give back the morale instantly.
And that’s Makoto for you, a fun and extremely rewarding character but you gotta work hard with her. She’s not easy to learn and not easy to play.
I play Ryu from times to times in endless and he’s boring to play, effective but boring.
The best is to try with Makoto at start and if you can bear to lose lots of games, and you sure will even against random dp spammers, you wont change your main character for any reason.
I love you , you expressed every thought that I had all this time in words. Absolutely no cheap moves , nothing to spam , nothing to get out with slow walk speed , hard to control dashes … that’s all the prices you pay when you play makoto and that’s how it’s always been
Maybe it’s just to early and my timings off but does anyone find it a little more difficult to land hp>hc>mp on evil ryu?
So it seems when I dash in and walk closer I can hit him but if its just a dash in or any other distance he seems to block the mp.
My theory is s.MP, s.LK xx HK Karakusa delayed accordingly on hit or block is the most consistent and safest way into Karakusa, unless an opponent has an armored reversal like Gouken or Balrog (but then again, Oroshi is best for them ;)).
Catches jumpers and can make them stop jumping in between, you can confirm a backdash and not go into Karakusa, and it’s a block string into itself. Of course they can mash or jump AFTER the s.LK, and not have done it before, but that seems like a rarity to me.
Anyone have any better theories on opponent’s wake-up Karakusa? s.HP xx HC can’t be “meaty” and go into s.LK as a string, and I’m not sure about s.HK being better due to push-back. I wonder if it’s possible to hit-confirm into s.LK xx LP Hayate … s.MP, s.LK+236 (hit-confirmed at this point), 3214+HK. I imagine it’s possible, if not awkward.
[media=youtube]j2VaU7EaJug[/media]
It doesn’t look like this is included in the strat guide in this thread, but Haitani uses a different sort of meaty on HP/EX oroshi. Looks like dash x2, mp, then hp oroshi. He does it around 2:30. Could be a different strength of oroshi; guessing since it looks like a hard knockdown.
i accidently came across this site after going a google search for top dudleys in japan. http://kyosuke.kun.free.fr/Ranking/index.php?fighter=makoto
Nice, but that setup from EX Oroshi has a 6 frame gap before the hit comes out. That’s a free crouch tech or grab 
You didnt understand 
Thats not a meaty setup. That’s an anti shoryu setup (like the one i’ve put in my “vs yun” video.
That beats shoryu and backdash (or at worst trades, but knockdown advantage).
I know that perfectly well - HP Oroshi is my BnB on Yun’s wake-up. I was just noting there’s a huge hole before the Oroshi hits, enough that if an opponent so chooses to tech or throw you’re getting hit for free.
rhaaaa! haitani missed his MP-fukiage at the first round of 2nd match…that made him lose the round :xxxxx
Maybe it isn’t a hp oroshi then? It does look ike it comes out faster than hp.
It’s HP Oroshi. I’m not saying the setup is bad and shouldn’t be used, BTW.
Ever since I made that setup list, I’ve been safe jumping all day against any applicable characters. Backthrow, c.HP, EX Oroshi, U1, Fukiage … I can’t help myself. Thus, I’m gonna make a “Safe Jump Guide” in the OP, but I’ll make it here first, any input is groovy.
Safe Jump Guide
Makoto can safe jump off of virtually any untechable knockdown. Her safe jump game is deadlier than many characters’ because of the simple fact that it is an essentially free meaty for a character who has combos and mix-ups when up close worth 400 damage or more based on meter. Being up close like this, at worst, forces your opponent to waste 2 bars to be safe or just in general force your opponent into frame disadvantage against Makoto; at best, it leads into an Ultra or free combo.
How to safe jump 4+ frame moves:
EX Oroshi, dash forward, s.LP whiff, neutral jump HK.
EX Oroshi, s.HK whiff, neutral jump MK against SRK type moves.
Backthrow, f+MP whiff, neutral jump HK.
Ultra 1, dash, f+MK whiff, neutral jump HK.
c.HP, wait 5 frames, j.HP.
HP Oroshi, f+MK whiff, neutral jump HK.
Most setups fail against Blanka, Sagat, and Cammy. For back throw, setups won’t work on Adon, Blanka, Dhalsim, Claw, and Sagat.
[spoiler=Safe jump-able characters]
Against these characters, safe jumps are always safe:
Ibuki
Gen
Dan
Sakura
Yun
C. Viper
M. Bison
Dee Jay
Cody
Yang
Blanka
Rufus
El Fuerte
Vega
Adon
Rose
This list isn’t long, but that’s partially because there are certain Ultras, Supers, and metered options to mess with safe jumps from other characters, which fortunately aren’t always available.
Not safe jump-able characters
Against these characters, traditional safe jumps don’t work:
Ryu
Ken
E. Honda with U2
Ibuki with U1
Makoto with 1 bar
Dudley with Super
Seth with 1 bar
Gouken
Akuma
Oni
Juri
Chun-Li with Super
Dhalsim with U1
Abel with 1 bar
Sagat with Super
Cammy with U2
Guy with U2
Hakan with 1 bar, U1, or U2
Evil Ryu
Guile with Super
Zangief with 1 bar or U1
Balrog with U2
Fei Long with U2
T. Hawk with 1 bar or U1
While this list seems long, many characters won’t have the Super or the specific Ultra needed to mess with a safe jump. Any character with a 3 frame SRK or armored move can be empty jumped against safely. In fact, only some grapplers with EX and grapple Ultras and those with 1 frame Supers can punish an empty jump. Safe jumping works quite well against most characters, you just have to make a read on if the opponent will reversal or not (like any meaty) - it’s why in top level play, SRK users generally don’t reversal against safe jumps. Dhalsim will generally not use U1 against safe jumps in high level play. Knowing these things, you can come to a conclusion on when it’s wise to safe jump an opponent.
Ultimately, there is a counter for 99% of what an opponent can do while safe jumping, it merely requires the right read on an opponent’s habits … and to an extent, their level of play.
Makoto’s options while safe jumping
If your opponent blocks this too often, consider going into naked Karakusa, s.LK xx HK Karakusa, or Tsurugi after the blocked j.HK. Otherwise you’ve got your pick of mix-ups, go nuts! You have frame advantage!
Beats backdashing, jumping, slow reversals, and gives frame advantage against blocking. Loses to FA backdash, fast reversals, and invincible fast throws.
Beats bad backdashes, jumping, crouch techs, throws, and invincible throws. Neutral/loses to blocking, depending on the opponent’s character, though there are Tsurugi mix-ups aplenty. Loses to FA, FA backdash, and reversals.
Beats most reversals, and lets you read an opponent’s habits. Doesn’t really lose to anything but good horizontal moves, though letting an opponent go on wake-up is a loss of momentum.
Beats late crouch teching and throws. Loses to fast invincible throws, reversals, FA, FA backdash, and well-timed normals/crouch techs.
Beats most reversals if done late enough, block, and FA backdash. Neutral with crouch teching, throwing, jumping, and backdashing. Loses to invincible throws and slow reversals.
Beats FA, FA backdash, armored reversals, crouch teching, and blocking. Loses to all throws, reversals, backdashing, and jumping.
So there you have it. With these options, you should have an answer to an opponent’s every move off of a safe jump; the onus is on you, the player, to make the right read and either let your opponent kill himself via bad habits or punish your opponent for having good habits.
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Ok sooo… I was just messing around in training and I’m not sure what the correct terminology is for this but I came up with
and I was like thats cool and all but am I safe to land… short answer NO… but when I put it on record and tried to srk it with Ryu I couldnt get the srk to come out for the life of me… found out even though it appears she is in the air long enough on the otherside to do a normal srk you still have to do it the other way so that it comes out… if not then you get a fireball or the corresponding normal to the srk you tried to do… now if they wait they can do a normal srk but it gets blocked… srk only hits you if they are aware they need to autocorrect… so im wondering is it a viable mix up? since a normal comes out ex command should beat it right?
i dont have anyone here to test it in a real game scenario and my internet is ass atm the moment so no online? im hoping one of you can mix it in your mixup and see if ex command grabs baits the srk that they didnt know to autocorrect… idk if this has been gone over before call me crazy or stupid if it has… but if it is viable its just another trick up the sleeve I could whip out on unsuspecting shotos.
TL;DR J. Hp causes late crossover causes person to believe they dont have to do an autocorrect dp… ex command grab on land to beat normal that comes out? someone test please… thx
I dont really understand this. It hits while going up ?
If opponent guards or is crouching, your jump HP whiffs and you get “lighted” when landing, you know that? :X
damnnn you are correct sir… i made a false assumption that it would hit block or guard… my hope for a mix up off that is crushed … oh well back to the lab… thank you for input at least 
So lk tsurugi.
Is it really worthless? I’ve seen Zakbg use it in some of his videos so I figure it must be some uses for it.
According to V-Ryu, it’s better used than MK Tsurugi when your opponent may neutral jump, as when you’ve conditioned them to expect a Karakusa. You recover faster, and can AA better.
Also it has a different trajectory than the others. It drops you straight down like EX Tsurugi. Its faster so better if you’re doing Tsurugis in the corner trying to catch them jumping. IMO It has a higher hitbox when you’re jumping foward, but it is at the expense of the forward hit box when jumping foward. So basically the way I look at it, the closer the opponent is to you, the less strength you need on Tsurugi.
EDIT - I meant to add that it is better on crouch techers, but really only go for a medium attack after if unless you hit it VERY deep/meaty. I like it after s.MPx2, EX Oroshi, Jump over, LK Tsurugi. I’ve got that to hit jumps, and crouch techs, and if they recover in time, you can do like vryu said and use lp Fukiage. I think this only works if they try to attack though. It is very dificult to do, but worth it IMO .