FIGHT!!!

Defense

Spoiler

DAMN!

Abel is knocked down, his wake up game is bad…
Akuma is jumping at you, what do you do!?!!?!?

Alright, lets take this step by step and take each knock down one at a time…
Lets start with Demon Flip throw… Normal throw… and Sweep.

[spoiler= Normal Throw]

Lets start by considering a grab which Abel lands mid screen!

From my experience 99.999999 Fucking 9% of the time, see Akuma’s do a double :f::f: dash and then either Demon flip or Cross up Tatsu.

During this time just listen with your ears!:clown:
If Akuma hops in the air and makes a noise that means he’s doing a demon flip(**:dp::k: = HeeeeEEEE!!!). **

On the other hand, if Akuma jumps in the air silently then he’s likely going for a cross up Tatsu.

So what are the defensive options?

If Akuma does a DEMON FLIP then we have palm, throw, and kick to worry about.
I don’t know of any fancy OS that solves 2 out of 3 picks… if anybody knows post it…

EX Tornado Throw beats Demon Palm OS
Back Dash dodges the throw (TT punish not guaranteed)
I don’t think the kick is very important…

CROSS UP TATSU

This information is off of match experience and not training mode. Therefore take with a grain of salt…

It seems that a simple wake up FOCUS dash forward to absorb the cross up tatsu kick is enough to get away from his offense. The tatsu seems to have some recovery so there isn’t much akuma can do against ex roll or any form of escape for that matter.

PUNISH: It’s happened before where a wake up EX tornado throw caught akuma out of his tatsu right as he hit the floor. This possibly could have been a result of poor timing on the Akuma’s part, a possibility to keep in mind though.


If Abel lands in the corner after the throw then you’ll most likely have to put up with his jumping light kick ambiguous cross up…

No punish/counter has been discovered yet to my knowledge.[/details]

Sweep

Spoiler

While I mentioned earlier that Demon Flip was one of Akuma’s option post Throw + Double Dash, the Demon flip Akuma gets specifically after sweep is meatier. The sweep knock down gives akuma ALL of his options at full force and therefore it deserves more of our attention: Here it goes

**

**

Offense

Spoiler

Tornado throw: After the dash do either a light roll or a roundhouse roll and then immediately jump back!

By doing this all of Akuma’s Dps will whiff and give a free punish
You have a 50% chance of punishing a wake up teleport
and you can punish a wake up demon

Safe punish = Risk reward is awesome.

More Later

Roundhouse Whiff Punish

Spoiler

Ground Game: Let’s begin :china:

Akuma has

A: Super fast walk speed,
B: Far roundhouse comes out pretty quick (8 frames)
C: Abel has a FAT hit-box that makes it so that both of Akuma’s roundhouse kicks connect when Abel is ***either standing or crouching… >:( ***

That means that as Abel you’re going to be dealing with A LOT of these and you’re going to run into A LOT of Akuma players that will spam this against you with reckless abandon.:crybaby:

**So what can you do against this dumb roundhouse? **There are a few options; and like the toggle says, we’ll start by considering whiff punish options…

Standing light kick and standing medium punch are my two favorite options… Big Surprise:wow:

ST. LK!! obviously because
it has good range,
it’s fast start up
and fast recovery

which means it’s a normal you can afford to use a little sloppily** spam it preemptively.** Although it doesn’t do lots of damage, its safety makes it the move to go to whenever in doubt!:shy:

ST. MP!!! is great for a few reasons…
It’s the same start up speed as light kick 5 frames awesome
it’s got 6 active frames making it a normal that Akuma could end up running into by accident…:rofl:

But…

More recovery makes it carry more risk, so unless you’re deliberately reacting to the roundhouses with it, I’d recommend sticking with light kick and only peppering in medium punches…

**CR. MK!!!**is pretty slow/bad but it COOUUULLD be useful … Abel’s angle is super low so it sorta puzzle pieces niecly against the roundhouse when it was used farther away reckless players…. Why not, right?:confused:

CR. MP/ STEP KICK!!!: Both options are super meh! Both moves start up in 7 frames and neither of them have the angular hitbox advantage that low mk does. Use this I suppose if a good opportunity calls for it but on the most part i think these normals aren’t very useful in this situation.

[spoiler= Ex Command Grab]
EX Tornado throw: By far the riskiest option but probably the best in terms of damage and striking the Fear of God into your opponent’s head…:badboy:

But Akuma’s roundhouse is super fast, do you really expect me to react to something like that with a special move that takes a bar a meter and feel good about it?”:wtf:

Yes! It sounds hard, because it is!!! however there are things to keep in mind that will help to make it easier…:china:

#1 Keep in mind: A huge majority of the time the Roundhouse comes out is when the Akuma walks forward. Pay attention to the Akuma player’s walk patterns and you’ll see that this is true…

Get a feeling for the distance the roundhouse travels Spacing… stay just within range and then watch his footwork and be ready!

#2 the input. You could do one of two techniques… :nunchuck:

Buffer like crazy over and over making it so that you’ll only need to react to the roundhouse by hitting two buttons together, rather than two buttons AND a stick command.
*Obviously by doing the full motion over and over Abel will be fidgeting up and down like crazy meaning you’ll be making it obvious to your opponent what you’re doing…

Just pray your opponent is oblivious and can’t understand what you’re doing, or try and do it slower and more discreetly…”

The second technique is the short cut input… To do a command grab,:wtf: YOU DON”T HAVE TO DO A HALF CIRCLE BACK PUNCH…:wow: .

If you rest your stick on *:df: (down-forward) * you can, from that point, go to neutral and then straight to back:b: ! Try this out in training mode if you don’t believe me! Down forward: Neutral: Back!

By doing this Abel will simply be crouching on the screen thus giving no signs as to what you’re trying to do to the Akuma player!:clapdos:[/details]

Blocking Roundhouse

[details=Spoiler][spoiler= Close Roundhouse/ Mix-Up]
**NO WE’RE NOT DONE WITH ROUNDHOUSE!:annoy: **

All we’ve done to this point is discuss how to meet it halfway and beat it out with varies attacks, but the truth is that a big majority of the time you’re going to end up blocking it, either by playing lame or being to scared of getting hit; either way it’s a situation that’s going to happen often and it’s worth it to talk about what to do afterwards.

Alright: In 2012 his roundhouse is now -2 on block which means!!! Dun duh duh!!! Abel’s response game got a little bit stronger!:woot:

If the akuma player threw out the roundhouse from very close and then ends up within kissing range afterwards, Abel can now respond more reliably with tornado throw.
Ex Tornado throw in particular, is a much stronger response now that it was in previous games. Why?:confused:

Because now that Akuma is -2 on block, his two safe options cr jab/throw now make contact with Abel 5 frames after Abel is fully recovered instead of 3.

Why is this important??? Ex Tornado throw is grabbale and the regular one is hittable, that means that in previous games, where akuma’s roundhouse was 0 on bock (**FUCKING BROKEN :arazz: **), the throw/jab made contact with Abel 3 frames after he recovered making the scenario a 50/50 with respect to the guess between normal/ex tornado throw.

In other words, the jab would hit Abel before his regular command throw would come out, and his throw would grab about before his EX tornado throw would come out!

BUT NOW!!! Given the new frame Data :wink:

Normal Command grabs that would lose consistently before to cr jabs, will now win more often
EX command grabs that would lose consistently to standing throws, will now win more often

So now! It’s a workable gamble to turn butter like a madman! By throwing out stupid random throws after **Close Blocked Rounhouses, **Abel will WIN more often than he did in previous games.

What’s extra beautiful about this is that by virtue of Akuma having weaker follow up options after a close blocked roundhouse, it’s going to necessarily pressure the Akuma to try other things instead, most of which involve either doing random special moves Demon flip, DP or other evasive options which results in him giving up space ( jumpback, walk back, neutral jump, teleport etc) …:tup:

This is good… putting Akuma in the position to either run away or take big risks is awesome!:lovin:
[/details]

Blocked FAR Roundhouse

Spoiler

“Alright… w/e Splurg, but what about if he spaced is properly and ended up to far enough away to avoid the grab? Are there good options/risks to take or should we just sit there and block?”

You could always throw out ex COD afterwards in hopes of catching a random sweep or something, but in all seriousness, NO… in this particular scenario, the best option by far is to sit and block BUT!!! That doesn’t mean you should hold down back, shut off your mind and wait for more space…:zzz:

There’s something VeRy vEeErrY Speeecial!! one should keep in mind within this match up which newcomers might not learn by themselves. This is relevant within all ranged of a blocked roundhouse but more so in the far range we’re talking about… This special thing is his: ***Low Medium kick xx Hadoken. :pleased: ***

Akuma’s low medium kick cancelled into a gohadoken is** NOT** a block string!!! What does that mean? It means that in between the kick and the plasma there is a very very small window where Abel is free to move about!

So what do we do with this?

As if you didn’t know already! :confused:Abel has one of the most Pringles forward dashes in the game! After a blocked far roundhouse or whatever! If you’re holding down back to block Akuma’s bullshit! Keep your eyes peeled for throw attempts with your crouch tech like your normally do! But ALSO keep your eyes open for his crouching medium kicks!!! AS SOOON as you see one of those bitches, put your fucking fingers over the focus buttons and wait for the purple plasma! If you see him chuck it… Focus absorb it, dash in and scoop is ass!

Fuck it… if you have Ultra… or super! Do that same thing… Wait for the kick! If you see his hands go back… throw out that soulless/hearless (make sure to use the HP version!)[/details]

Akuma write up

[details=Spoiler]]Akuma……where to start? OK, this will just be a brief glance at how you should be approaching this match-up, I don’t want to go to in-depth since I could be writing for days and days on little intricate details to look out for…. I won’t, I’m just going to give you a basic understanding on how it’s played.

To start off, my first goal is simple, force them to play on the ground. This is a lot easier than it sounds. You don’t want him to be jumping all over the place throwing fireballs or demon flipping, so simplest way to kill this is to jump forward hp when ever you see him jump forward. Simple, this kills both jump forward fireball and random flips. If he’s just jumping back throwing shit though, let him, just walk/roll his ass to the corner, he has no good escape options while there.

Alright, now that that’s done, let’s talk about the ground game. This is an area, or better yet, THE area where most Abels struggle with….and honestly, I don’t see it that threatening myself, it’s actually where I feel most comfortable. He has a couple really solid tools, st.hk, sweep, st.lp, cr.mp, fireballs…these are complimented by his stupid-fast walk speed. However, you have a tool that beats all of these….block.

If there’s one thing out of this whole damn write-up you take with you, it should be that, block. He doesn’t have a command throw, he doesn’t have crazy ambiguous cross-ups he can do while you’re standing… no, he has a couple really solid pokes, that if he lands them, will net him a knockdown and will probably lose you the round (or at least 40-60% of your health). So, lets say you are both dancing around his sweep range… he goes for st.hk, you block it… what do you do? Block the follow up. He’s usually too far away to throw after that, and if he actually does want to throw, he has to walk his ass up to you and attempt it, you have like a million tools to deal with this. Most Akumas like doing a cr.mp after st.hk to keep you on block stun and to continue their pressure. Block. “Well, how the fuck am I supposed to beat him if I’m just holding back the whole time?”

You’re not holding back the whole time, you are just avoiding getting hit with silly shit. You can start your own offense by keeping him out of sweep range with st.lk and just walking forward, stuffing his sweeps with st.lk. At this range, you are susceptible to eating a st.hk, so be ready and punish with a cr.mk xx mp.cod OR st.lp CH  step kick. The latter is if you want to style, but is hard as shit as not only does it need to hit as a CH, but the combo into step kick is 1 frame. Honestly at this range though, you should be attacking 30% of the time and blocking the other 70%. Just attack when either whiff punishing or when you feel comfortable to do so, also, try to keep on walking forward while blocking his shit on reaction, this is probably your number 1 goal here, since you can kill him if you get him there. This isn’t a matchup where you can just go in, balls to the wall, and expect to win (I think this is why a lot of Abels have trouble here). You have to pick your battles, and pick them carefully.

Whiff punish EVERYTHING, if he sweeps, sweep him back, if he whiffs a st.hk, step kick or cr.mk his ass. This is a huge part of this match, as you can potentially win off that one whiff punish that lead to a knockdown. Keep an eye out for his pokes, and don’t let him get away with shit, you HAVE to be on point with your punishes, as you never know when you will get that opportunity again. Of course, once you get him scared of throwing random shit out there, you can run your standard pressure (step kick, dash up, sweep, etc).

On knockdown, he’s probably the most annoying character to deal with. He truly has the best wake-up in the game, but it doesn’t matter, as we only need to guess once or twice and we win. The mixup you will apply honestly depends on what type of knockdown you scored, but you are going to bait teleport pretty much the same way with all his knockdowns. To catch back teleports, either RH roll or jump forward into step kick, to catch forward teleports, jump back into step kick. Easy, but you have to guess which side he’s going to teleport correctly, and there’s also that chance that he doesn’t teleport all together, and just stays in place or SRK’s……or backdashes….or anythinge else. Honestly, you’re not going to win this match-up by guessing on his wakeup, like against everyone else. Sure, if you guess right, that’s great! You get like 40-50% off his health, but don’t depend on this to win, most of your damage is going to come from punishing shit he does or from your standard ticks into TT or punishing escape attempts.

OK, now for the hardest part….when YOU get knocked down. This is honestly the only part of the match-up I hate… You could honestly lose your entire life bar off one sweep…but only if they have the “true” (Tokido) vortex down. The “true” vortex consists of 2 basic options that fuck you up, but they can elaborate and throw in other shit once you’re conditioned to look for those options. The two options I’m talking about are either DF palm OS demon/throw/sweep, or DF throw. They sound pretty simple, but it’s more fucked up than you think. First of all, if the Akuma knows how to OS demon, don’t, I repeat, DON’T backdash or ex.roll, as that’s a easy way to lose half of your life. If you think they are going to throw, just either jump back hp or lk, or neutral jump hk. Of course, he can do palm to beat those options, but I rather eat palm than a fucking demon. If you think he will do palm though, you can do a late EX.TT to catch him while he’s going down, and it’s a 100% sure punish. He can do DF dive kick instead to fuck all of that up… but that’s why I think you get raped on wakeup, the options you have only cover individual options he does, you don’t have a “get the fuck out of everything free” card, you have to guess. That’s why I rather just block… sure, it loses to throw, but at least you show them that they HAVE to go for throw, since all their other shit isn’t working. Once they HAVE to throw, it makes it a lot easier to escape. Of course it’s still a guess, so this can also easily get you fucked up.

Once you do block or get out of the vortex, the whole thing is reset, go back to your standard ground game while trying to avoid that other knockdown, since you might not guess right this time. Keep looking out for random forward jump FB’s or DF, and stuff properly. Don’t let them abuse silly shit like st.hk over and over…punish correctly.

Shit, well these are pretty much the basics of this match-up, and it took me forever to write out…. Like I said, I know this match-up very well, so I could keep on writing on forever….but I won’t, for my sake.[/details]

I take zero credit for this. This is all belongs to Gustavo. I just thought it belonged in this thread.

Thanks for looking out

Heads up…

In the readings I make reference to things like frame traps and frame data in general.
For those of you who are more or less beginners or see something that doesn’t seem to make sense in relations to frame data or numbers of any kind… please please please ask!

No problem! Thank you for taking the time to make match up threads. I always appreciate it when people take the effort to help the community.

I usually do 2 things against akuma’s roundhouse. I either use s.mp to stop roundhouse from far away and when they get smart about roundhousing from far away and they change it to doing it at a closer distance then I have s.jab ready and just reset them out of it. s.mp is good, but you’ll get tripped if you stick it out too much. When roundhouse pressure is minimized then they usually end up trying to jump in so s.hp as anti-air keeps them off me pretty well. Also if the Akuma is the attack and then run-away type, then hk roll and catch them jumping back with falling sky as they attempt to throw their fireball.

Lots of things with Akuma. When I knock Akuma down, I’ll jump and input mk and then roll if it whiffs, either is nice if they decide to teleport but not a sure punish. The jabbers, go up close and meaty normal throw on their wake-up every now and then. I tend to block a bunch with Akuma at the moment they have ultra or super and they are on the offense with vortex pressure, I’ll take a demon flip over a hit at this point, if they have ultra or super I don’t dash back unless I really feel a demon flip is coming as they are going to be hunting for an ultra or super if you dash back, like picking the lesser of the two evils.

You can always jab jab jab or any variation like it and then stop, watch dp whiff and punish, this is for any dp character, many players will mash dp when on defense so trick them and just stop attacking, pause and let their attack come out, you’ll be at a distance so they won’t be able to fadc.

Anyways, just my own take on it which overlaps some with what has been said already about the match-up so no surprise. Well, unless you do up, down, left, right, select, start, a, b, within 2 seconds so that all of Abel’s moves are safe during the match, but don’t tell anyone about it…

If hop pressure is causing problems, then late crouch tech, but plink lp + lk so that lp comes out instead of lk. The hops will get jabbed, you’ll tech if he grabs, if he balls you’ll block (late tech), if he jumps then you can s.hp or dash back or jump back fierce.

I don’t know if anyone else does this with Abel, but I plink lp+lk so that I get a jab when crouch teching, I’ve found that it has so many benefits, it trades (as in resets) Sakura’s tatsu up close and many times knocks her out of it so you can minimize the longer never ending combo she can pull off on Abel, beats Guile’s upside down kick which counter hits Abel, has fast recovery when fighting Ken, so if Ken holds focus and does a quick release after fadc, you won’t get crumpled whereas if you do a short it is a crumple. Works well with Blanka’s hop. I also use it with Cammy on those short cannon spike’s that are supposed to beat your crouch tech, not a damage or combo starter but keeps you alive longer and improves my defense. Anyways, it sounds dumb writing about it but it works well and has saved my ass so many times in many matches, works well for me at least so that’s why I’m sharing.

Hmmm… Crouch tech technology (tech tech) interesting :coffee:.

so plinking the jab into the light kick would give an input looking like this right?:
:lp:
:lp::lk:

Sounds great but isn’t it hard getting it consistent?
So far i’ve tried doing this by turning my hand inward so that my middle finger is on jab and index is on lk.

feels weird

Yes, getting it consistent is hard at first and yes it will feel weird (at first), I’ve been doing it since late SSF4 days on and off then so I’m a little used to it. I drum my index finger first followed by my thumb and when I pick up momentum it can look like strumming your hand on a guitar. I’m also not sure if plinking this way increases your tech throw window by 1 frame, I’d like to think it does but am not sure. I noticed I put the plinking post on the wrong thread, was originally meant for vs. Blanka thread, hehe. :slight_smile:

I’d advocate running after grabbing a life lead. The matchup is lobsided enough for me to realize that I need to avoid Akuma at all costs.

I’m a rank B+ Abel player right now closing in on 12000 BP. What do you need to know about this match-up? What specific problems are you having?

How do you avoid the demon flip throw btw? I’m pretty lost about that. can they grab me out of ex roll?

You can just simply crouch under the throw. And unfortunately, rolling won’t help you out at all. So if timed right, they can even grab you out of that

Sorry this is a myth. You can always grab a croucher especially big characters like Abel.

ya he’s right!, it’s a myth.

I guess I have to up-back and hope it’s not a palm or dive kick lol. Fuck Akuma!

Interesting especially against Guile’s upside down kick. Guiles I face go for jump in, upside down kick or throw mix up against Abel now. I hardly push buttons anymore cause the combo does huge damage. Gonna go training mode later. I don’t think it should work against Cammy’s instant ex cannon spike though?

About Akuma’s demon throw, even if you backdash it at the risk of eating option select demon, he can jump Abel’s TT. Not sure if regular throw is guaranteed. There’s no guess right and make Akuma pay option for Abel after knock down. :frowning:

I fucking hate this matchup. I just lost 15x in a row to an Akuma who just went balls out attacking me and I couldn’t keep him out. he literally pressed standing roundhouse after standing roundhouse, and when I stuff it when st.mp he just jumps in with demon flip. this is so bullshit.

fricken shinakuma204.