When an OS “beats” mash jab, I want Abel to do some damage and continue his offense. This OS will “beat” mash jab by letting Abel block, which basically means Abel loses all momentum and is now put into a Ryu block string/mixup (walk forward low strong, low forward, overhead, throw, DP FADC, etc). Blocking is better than eating a hit confirm combo, of course, but it just seems like being forced to block jabs kinda sucks the wind out of the power of the OS.
I do respect Strider’s willingness to put videos online, though. Keep them coming! And also, keep the debate coming (as long as it’s done respectfully).
I personally think cl.HP is a better mixup than EX FS. You can make the side you appear on just as ambiguous as post-TT mixups (maybe even more, since cl.HP xx roll is so rarely seen so people are surprised more?), and it’s harder to reversal because you get less time to recognize it; let’s face it, if the guy is going to mash DP, he’s going to mash DP in either mixup (and you can beat mash DP in the same ways with either mixup), so at least give him less time to recognize he’s getting mixed up. It also costs no meter, which is always a positive for me. Strider does make a good point that it lacks the “oomph” of EX FS for making them stop jumping… but if they’re going to keep jumping because they don’t think cl.HP is “scary enough”, then maybe that’s a good thing for us!
Cr. Shorts beats this, but if they really are mashing on short after step kick then either a) they have no clue what to do after they block it, or b) they are gonna eat a fat ch combo or tt. If they actually know what they are doing thet would be trying to backdash, throw, reversal or jab.
I’m gonna try to get more vids up this weekend. Akuma and dhalsim are chars I also want to cover later on.
That’s not true at all. c.LK/c.LP is actually one of the best options the opponent can do, specifically if they have a 3f c.LK/c.LP. But even if it’s 4f, if the character can crouch the first hit of Abel’s cl.HP with it, it’s still a solid option. Against a fast short/jab like this, Abel can only try to perfectly time a normal throw, or EX TT. Anything else loses. It’s the same reason that throwing is a good option for the opponent after blocking a step kick, which you recognize. The only thing Abel can do is tech it or regular TT to beat it, anything else loses.
I don’t understand how you can say that if the opponent is doing c.LK they “don’t know what they’re doing” but then at the end of the same paragraph, you say if they do know what they’re doing, one of the options they’ll be using is c.LP. That literally makes no sense. For the purpose of the situation the opponent is in, c.LK and c.LP accomplish the same goal, except c.LK has the added benefit of being a potential crouch tech.
Also, how do you figure you’re going to get a CH combo from someone mashing a c.LK after a step kick? And how would this be any different then a c.LP?
I kinda had the same thinking as Hunter when I read that Strider said jabs were unreliable. Here’s’ his response if you’re interested -see comments-
In short, he says a well timed throw can counter a c.jab/short.
Now here’s an interesting thing: My friend (Ken player) said he was playing JBA for a long amount of games, and whenever he tried to outjab him after blocked step kick, he would always eat a TT. He didn’t understand what was happening (online lag? or mashing TT will beat c. jab?) since it would almost always work against me and I was kinda surprised. We tested it but we weren’t sure if we were replicating it cause theoretically it shouldn’t work…
I was mainly reffering to 4 frame shorts, since that’s what most characters have. Its well known that 3 frame normals lose to a well timed throw, so I didn’t find it necessary to post that. In my experience, players who mash crouch tech after fwd.mk aren’t really experienced in the abel matchup, since you have a billion ways to deal with that, assuming they are 4 frames of course.
Err-- yeah, I was referring to characters with 3-frame c.jabs/shorts. He was playing Ken. He’s really keen on execution so I can’t imagine him timing them wrong, but then again, he was playing online.
I know you os sweep backdashes after blocked step kicks but how do you punish backdashes from chun and rose. The c. hk comes out too slow and I know they both have pretty big punish opportunities after that.
I was messing around earlier and trying to find something with cod but I’m kinda stumped
Any ideas or is this a situation where you have to react/predict?
This is one of the OS’s I’m gonna show in my next video.
Pretty self-explanatory, after dash kick, just do a cr.jab, and immediately follow up with a st.lp~fwd.mk fwd, then cancel the first st.lp into a cr.lp to continue pressure if they didn’t backdash. OS has to be done fairly fast, but If done right will catch backdashes with a fwd.mk dash if your first jab whiffs.
I never knew this thread existed, but yeah… I like Close Fierce against neutral jumpers, but EX FS is fine too.
As for the Low Short shit… I was talking to a local Ken player the other week, and I told him that Low Short is his absolute best option after blocking a Step Kick. For Ryu/Akuma, it’s a little different since their low Shorts are 1f slower, but it’s not that different.
This OS is good, but it does lose to Low Short, as it is… obviously, modifying the OS to holding down/back for 8 frames, then back for 1f and throwing, is the clear fix. You lose the visual cue to know when to throw, but you shouldn’t need that. I agree with Infil though… to say this OS takes away all Shoto options is a HUGE overstatement. If I’m Ken, and I block Step Kick, then get you to block my Low Short, I’m feeling pretty good about that exchange. If Ken starts doing Low Short after Step Kicks (as OST, obviously), Abel can only hit a frame-perfect throw, or EX TT. If I’m Ken, I’m whoring out Low Short after Step Kicks.
As for the overall tone of the thread, Ryan came off a little combative in his post, but that was probably a direct response to the whole “I’m the only Abel in the Western Hemisphere to ever use an OS, and you guys are too stupid to have even read the post I made a while back (that got plenty of responses) explaining this AMAZING OS” tone of the first post. :-/
Not that it really matters… as long as decent ideas are flowing around, I don’t give a shit how it comes across.
Didn’t really want to give off that vibe, I can see how it came out, but that was really not my intention. Just want american abels to lvl up and win a major, it would be great if someone from this forum made it past top 8 in big tourneys. Abel has the potential to win, just no one is tapping it yet. I don’t have much time in my hands to travel to all these tourneys, so that is why I’m giving all the info I have, so that someone else can use it and represent.
Also, I plan on making the 2nd vid of this series explaing OS’s for chun, rose, viper and fei after SCR, right now I’m grinding hard to rep in SCR and NCR, since those will be the last tourneys I attend for awhile. Look for me and Peru to (hopefully) wreck shit up, that is unless I get stuck with Sako, in that case look for me to avoid getting double pee’d on.
That’s great. I need new tech. I’ve been trying to come up with as much shit as possible… but that’s never really been my lane. I’m more about strategizing, than the tactical shit. I’ve been able to come up with a few OS’s that serve me really well in certain fights, but I don’t really have shit for Chun/Rose that’s really worth using (I do Stand Short OS Breathless on Chun, but eh…).
I’ve personally always found OSing ultra off a low hit/block stun move to be pretty tough, especially if it’s not off a jumpin where you can sort of just practice muscle memory. And it’s that much tougher if you want to do it for more than one stand short in a row.
Isn’t U1 fast enough to catch a Chun backdash in that spot though?
[media=youtube]KUxBBH6YNHY&feature=player_embedded"[/media] from option-select.com.
Didn’t know about the dash under vertical jump->skyfall one. I’ve been trying to use c.lp+clk, c.lk+c.HP option select but because I always go for late tech, the c.HP is too slow and loses to a lot of vertical jumping attacks.
I use that dash under falling sky only against Zangief, since it only seems effective on him with my playstyle. Once the Gief’s get tired of me going for the rushdown TT they tend to jump or backdash, so I preemptively forward dash into TT, you get TT if they backdash and if they jump FS. As mentioned, I do this premptively but would be wise to use the crouching short like the guy shows in the video, although against gief you are still doing the short with the assumption that he isn’t going to go for a grab cause then your f’d anyways.