eh in midscreen, you cant reall follow up after a ch b+rh. but you can do a hop kick or a short hurricane to stay inside and keep momentum in your favor. now if you land ch b+rh in the corner, thats another story, you get some options. they may be able to flip, but if they flip wrong and throw out an incorrect attack or just block, you can get a free c.strong AA into a fierce hurricane kick, c.strong into a dp. or you can just say fuck it and just do a dp which will be air unblockable since you cant air block a dp thats still grounded. another option could be after the ch in the corner, activate VC and stuff em with a s.fierce,fb wiff,s.fierce etc… lots of options depending on how the opponent decides to recover from the counter hit. it stays in your favor. opponent still has achance out tho
That VC is a rough one to learn because not only is the timing tight, it’s slightly different between the sections. What I suggest if you’re interested in learning it is:
VC1: Repeated Fierce fireballs in corner.
Sounds stupid, but it sets the pace. Afterwards try:
VC1: Hop Kick -> Fierce FB (just once for a 4 hit)
Get the timing of the hop kick -> fireball cancel. Then do the reverse:
VC1: Fierce FB -> Hop Kick (also just see if you can get it to 4 hit)
The timing between the hop kick -> fireball is different than fireball to hop kick. It’s the faster of the two. From there just try and put the two sections together:
VC1: Hop Kick -> Fierce FB -> Hop Kick -> Fierce FB -> etc
It should be like, “F+FK … F.FB … F+FK … F.FB … F+FK … F.FB” where the …'s are some undefined unit of time. It’s fast, but not Alpha 2 repeated fireball fast.
From there you can work in the crouching forwards and standing fierces.
Thanks for the answer guys.
What exactly is crouch canceling in a3 and what are its uses?
When I hear players talking about CC’ing, it’s usually paired with a corner VC…i.e. “Finish the VC off with cc j.lp” ok ok…that wasnt a direct quote, but that’s what it seems like ppl usually say. Can you only cc air moves? does it make you recover faster or something? Bah…I’ll just let someone explain it to me.
Also what uses does it have besides in V-ism? SaBrE kinda mentioned something, but not to the full extent. or maybe I’m new and don’t understand.
Basics in Crouch Canceling:
http://shoryuken.com/features/s000229.shtml
This mainly explains the cc for V-Ryu…it gives some basic info on what cc is and how to use it. It doesn’t explain how to use it on non-Vism, tho. I’m a V-Ryu user too and the hadou rave is also pretty impossible for me…i can only do 2 or 3 reps before i fuck up and throw a red fireball or something. As for his midscreen confusion I use the “Valle” one and IIRC it goes like this:
VC3, c.short, c.roundhouse, jab FB, hop kick, j. forward (crossup), c.short, c.roundhouse, jab FB, etc…
Only problem is if i use it against someone with a DP or some other good wake up special, i get hit right somewhere around the time im doing the j. forward, so instead i do a hurricane kick after the jab FB or i back off, let them do the DP and continue. Sometimes i’ll also throw in a f.strong (overhead) too. But for real its not a good idea to burn meter on this VC, just save it for the corner like everyone else says.
BTW, if there are any V-Sodom users browsing this thread, maybe you can answer my question at the bottom here: http://shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20304
Oh okay thanks. I watched the B5 Dvd where Chikyu played V Rolento and I could have sworn he wiffed an attack during his custom. But thanks for the response. 
Crouch canceling works from the air to the ground…and then possibly to the air again. So while you can’t start a cc from the ground (the most you can do is set up an opportunity to jump, like with VCs), you can end it there…ie counter hit jump Fierce, cc fireball. When you land from a jump, you can cc into a walk, a normal, a special, super, or another jump.
So that’s why it has uses outside of V-ISM…if Chun Li hits you with a counter hit jump Short, you she can take half of your life with no super, and/or dizzy you, because she has a cc series in all -ISMs. A lot of characters have something simple like counter hit jump strong, cc into fireball super. Blanka and a few other characters can do something like counter hit jump fierce, cc jump roundhouse, c.fierce anywhere on screen, and most characters can do something like that (and much, much worse) if you can get them in the corner.
So overall, I think crouch cancels benefit A and X more than they do V (though there are exceptions…Sak, Sodom, Ryu, Sagat, etc…)
I know… that’s the second time I am asking this question, but I seriously hope someone know the answer:
How can you do connect two uppercut kicks using Gen? Please describe as much as possible how to do that combo.
PS: I am writing a faq on Gen, and trying really hard to avoid some scrub telling me how much my faq sucks cause I don’t know this basic combo for Gen.
Just do the first 3 hits of it fast(don’t time it like you would to get all of the hits), let Gen drop and do another one. Unless Gen follows a different law here, this isn’t even a true combo. It only hits if your opponent doesn’t flip out. I could be mistaken. Maybe there is a Gen exception there, but I’d doubt it. There are many Gen vids out with this type of combo in them.
Apoc.
You oversimplify Chun Li here. No, you cannot simply land a counter jump short and do 50% without a super. Perhaps on a specific character dummy on training mode. This just doesn’t happen in real play. In fact, I’ve never seen anyone do it outside of Vism in real play(the infinite). That’s not to say that her crouch cancels aren’t worth it, but they are best suited for the corner to cause a dizzy, not for an infinite UNLESS you are V-Chun.
Everyone has a CC series in all isms. Generally, they are limited when not set up with a V.
Think about it. Any character that has a cc in V has it in A or X(just about). The difference is in how hard it is to set up. All of A/X set-ups can be ported over to V. You can’t do a vc in a/x. Therefore, Vism makes the best use of crouch cancelling by far.
Just had to spit some truth here, hehe.
Apoc.
Which kick do you use the first time?? How about the second time? One guy who teached me how to played Gen a long time ago told me to use HK in both case, but I was only able to do it once since SFA3 came out…
I used the Chun Li example because it was the longest cc without a super/VC that came to mind (because of the jumping Roundhouse, which AFAIK is unflippable). No, it’s not practical, because most people don’t jump at Chun Li, expecting to beat out her j.SK with their shitty attack, but my point was that VCs weren’t the only things that crouch canceling was good for.
I somewhat disagree. Yeah, most cc series can be ported over to V. But that’s not always beneficial to V-ISM for the same reason; they can all be done in the stronger (and more dizzying) ISMs. So unless your character has some extended series that gives you a bunch of meter back, or an infinite, I think there’s defintely a case to be made for ccs being just as useful to the other two ISMs.
All CCs do more damage by themselves, and all setups that come from them (ie crossups or stuff that’s supposed to be flipped from) do more damage than what you’re going to get in V as well, unless your character has a good enough midscreen (which is actually relatively rare).
I will admit though, that they’re a lot harder to set up with certain characters in A/X than in V.
flippable
K, I said that her infinite wasn’t nearly as practical in Aism. I never said that her ccs were impractical? They are very practical and here’s how. AA with jab and follow up with a jump. When they con’t flip, air throw em, when they do flip, counter with strong into Ccancel. Hella practical. However, Vism Chun definately has more ways to incorporate crouch cancelling.
You’re getting caught up in damage theory. X does more…and takes more. See? It’s relative. Vism does less in a cc…until they cc into vc anyway. Take Zangiefs fierce one for example. You get a certain number of juggles out of it in X or A. If you are in V you can either cc right into the vc for immediate high damage or you can do a couple of reps and then activate the cc to juggle them…etc. In the end, same set up, more damage done by Vism and let’s not forget that Vism is taking LESS from A anyway. Take Ryu for another example. Crouch cancel strong and forward for a nice juggle…or, in Vism, do the same thing and then activate vism and pop em up again and finish with more crouch cancels. From player 1 side, Ryu could simply cc into the infinite to the corner…with Vism.
You’re simply thinking that since Aism does slightly more damage, the crouch cancel will be more beneficial. Nope. At best, I’m sure there have to be some characters that have better crouch cancels involving supers instead of vcs. I don’t know who they are.
Still, “Just as useful” certainly doesn’t apply with the most played tourney characters. Gief/Ryu/Charlie/Sakura/Sodom/Akuma/Cody/Balrog(hey, I play him in tourney:D)/Sagat/Karin…ok, the list could go on. If you watched experts play with all of these characters in both A and V you would most certainly see more crouch cancels performed in V as well as more damage inflicted by utilizing vism in conjuntion with crouch cancelling than you’d ever see in Aism. You’ll always get more damage in V than in A, even in crouch cancels. Hell, vism can use them to recharge vism. A and X both can’t do that with their crouch cancels.
I’m just saying. Clearly, crouch cancels fit Vism like a glove. They also benefit Vism more than the other isms in just about every way aside from, perhaps, a few exceptions. I’m sure I’ll hear of them soon.
Apoc.
Apoc’s pretty much right. Vism gets all the set ups from other ISMs plus extra VC only set ups that use Shadows. The downside to CCs in other ISM is that they’re usually started from air to air moves, though you want to counter with high priority move (such as a jump jab counter hit) its not always garunteed. With VISMs you can start them from the ground and set up a shadow to hit and then start the CC.
Yes, the added damage from Normal CCs is a good thing, but it is much scarier when an opponent can start a CC from the ground, through your move, basically anywhere. Damage aside, VISM benifits more since it builds meter (letting the do VISMs anywhere again), which all characters have btw.
Who are considered to be the bad matchups for V-Rolento?
IMO gief and sakura. Maybe Akuma. But Gief definetly.
V takes advantage of crouch cancels the most just cuz of inflection. every hit will cause major counter animation allowing more hits with crouch cancels than you could in x/a.
apoc: cc’s in x/a happen pretty often with characters like chun in x/a. of course the success rate in landing a cc is lower than landing one in a V, but it can happen often. plenty of safe setups for lots of characters that work pretty well to get cc’s in…
oh yeah about the cody infinite stuf back in november. that was dan lite that did it on watson. but hes not that good at doing crouch cancels. if i dont fuck around, i never mess up infinite. i kill with it 90% of the time, just takes a long time lol. pretty shitty way to lose heh.
EDIT: didnt see your last post there apoc heh. you are pretty much right there tho. v benefits more than any other ism without a doubt. but cc’s definitely give A/x higher chances of winning now. a couple cc hits into super can hurt just as much as a damaging VC now. like ken j.fierce is god. opponent floats so high on counter hit, you can get more hits than most other characters outside of a VC/inflection, then combo a lvl 1 shinryuken when you hit the corner, then reset into a lvl2 shinryuken for massive damage. that shit hurts. higher opportunity of damage now. cc’s seem to give the game a better sense of balance i think. damn shame they got rid of it in upper. 
short on time
Z3U is pretty terrible…if they were going to rape DJ like that, they should have at least made Guile good, or something…the whole point of Z3U was to make the good stuff bad, and not increase the bad stuff.
Anyway, for the record: my point is not that ccs are better in A or X than in V, but that the gap isn’t that huge. Basically what SaBrE said, only said in a worse way.
V-ISM takes less from A? Anyway, with the Gief example, you can just cc into super in A, and A-Gief without meter is better than V without it. My point though, is that the Ryu example is rare…unless you’re Ryu or Cody or Charlie or Sak or Sodom (etc), you’re getting more out of cc into super, or naked CC combos than you are than cc into VC or naked VCs in V.
Isn’t V-Balrog terrible? And in any situation which you don’t have meter (or want to use it for something more damaging), ccs are more useful in the other ISMs.
I think this is just aterminology thing, but whats “inflection”? and “naked”?
Actually, the attack/defence properties of the Isms are all well-known, but I’ve yet to see a thorough mathematical model of their dizzy points. Is there a complete one available that has breakdowns for move types etc?
I’m actually wondering if JChen is ever going to make an update on the A3 FAQ, but I suppose it’s not popular enough to warrant something like that.