I’ve always wondered about this actually. TC > fireball > SAIII does 53 damage according to OE, but TC > SAIII does 54, so why do I see a bunch a Japanese Kens doing the fireball? To sacrifice 1 damage for a a small bit of meter? To give more time to confirm?
Or did OE just fuck up the damage?
While we’re talking about it, something else about this:
Does the Fireball x Super itself cause the damage scaling?
Or Fireball has to hit and be included in the combo?
My example here is Ken’s vs Chun’s. Ken will hit the fireball more often than not. Chun never hits the fireball. So she never has to worry about Fireball x Super Damage scaling, with a Special move in the combo?
Should be the opposite, fireball combo should do one more damage than TC xx SA3.
Does OE really give those numbers?
WTF > yes, special will really scale down next hits.
What do you mean “ken will hit fb more often”? In TC x FB xx SA3, fb will hit everytime, and i’m not even sure it’s not the case with Chun…
Yeah just checked. All FireBalls hit, ignore that.
Those are the Damage numbers. Used Dudley
Got 46 on Hugo, +1 from 45. Sometimes.
I’ve always thought that TC->Super does 1-2 points more damage than TC->FireballxxSuper, though. A lot of players I’ve talked with say they do Fireball->Super because it’s easier for them. It’s kind of funny, because I have way more consistency just doing TC->Super.
On OE, if you cancel into super before the fireball connects, you lose 1 damage. IIRC, you gain 1 damage if you cancel after the hado hits, which rarely comes out for me = / I think it’s similar for Gouki’s cr.mk->hado->SA1, but can’t remember for sure.
Okay cool.
Just did that, got 46 on Hugo 3 times in a row.
Fireball hitting the same time as Ken SA3 1st Kick = 45
You hear the Fireball Hit SFX on its own* in there = 46
vs Ryu
51
53
Did it on Hugo, canceling into fireball gave 1 more damage if you canceled into the super early, but canceling into the super off the fireball late it gave the same damage.
Then I tried Ryu who I noticed it on, and same as I saw earlier today, no fireball = 54, early cancel off the fireball = 53, late cancel off the fireball = 51.
Testing this without Target combo
vs Ryu
38
41
38 Fireball hits 1st, then Super.
38 Fireball & Super hit same time.
41 Super hits 1st, Fireball hits 2nd
Can move all this to Ken threads. Or a Training mode/Damage topic could be its own thread.
It worked, I can do it semi-reliably now! 
Thanks!
edit: I also figured out that the problem wasn’t really the timing of the button presses, it was the fact that I did the motions horribly wrong. I need to get used to arcade sticks. x_x
Makoto question from a Makoto scrub (me)
I just got a knockdown and have time to get to the other guy on his wakeup. what does my mixup game look like? right now I do a mixture of the following:
cr lk, lp hayate
standing mp, SA1 on hit, karakusa on block
raw karakusa
is that all there is to it or is there more complex stuff I can add in, either different buttons or timing wise?
also for now my “cr lk, lp hayate” is a “just do it” thing. can people hit confirm that or is it always just a guess that they’re not blocking low? seems pretty risky to just do if Ken and Chun can punish it on block with super.
i know some people like to also do a neutral jump tsurugi.
i don’t play makoto, but i’ve seen that enough to know it’s another option.
i doubt anyone is hit confirming from low short. if they’re using it consistently its because they’re looking for the other character to move and as soon as they see any kind of movement. that whole idea. but i don’t know for sure really.
Read up on her Post Hayate Mixups and all the Kara-Karakusa.
Everybody needs to punish blocked Hayate because its way unsafe.
Probably about as confirmable as Elena crLK. But she gets easier “confirm” LK SRK (or Super!) out of it, with help of negative edge and double tap there. Makoto can get Super there too if you’re just feeling yourself, know they’re not blocking low, and ballin’ with execution thinking just do it.
crLK Super on Tape
[details=Spoiler]It happened in pherai’s Gouki Makoto Matchup Tutorial Example. Crazyass Ken-I mak
http://thirdstrikejunkies.com/?p=297
2:45 start round geez
went for it 3:32 also
[/details]
Sweep works too for another low to give them more to think about blocking & parrying low.
Wait, Fat Standing HK to beat would-be guess parry’ers.
CrHK if they want to just jump out now. But LK for Kara Karakusa has a Target combo to MK with great angle for jumps too.
complicated stuff dont know 4 sure
[details=Spoiler]
I want to say, maybe you can also HCB LK+LP option tech just in case you weren’t timing the Karakusa perfect and your opponent is bold enough to try wakeup throw. But that may not work, Throw considered a special move? Timed too Late karakusa will activate & whiff. Special move command grab overrides Regular Grab?
Better to try this to figure it out, not during meaty pressure. During a different situation where there’s likelyhood of Throws and needing throwbreak 1st option, maybe get karakusa if they just block/slow normal whatever.[/details]
A lot of people tend to block high almost exclusively against Mak so you can use st.mp/st.lp->cr.lk->Hayate. MP needs to be close. You can confirm they’re standing with both, it seems less risky than just cr.lk->Hayate IMO as you can stop before the Hayate.
Another is whiffed neutral jump RH->Karakusa. Works best against parry happy opponents and/or in the corner as you recover fast enough to block/parry if they jump attack.
Or the typical cr.lk->ex.Oroshi
EDIT: WTF-, yes the tech Karakusa works, timing window seems similar to crouch teching.
cool thanks everyone.
I’m guessing neutral jump tsurugi and jump roundhouse and whiff jump roundhouse karakusa are all part of the same mixup. seems like it would make sense.
oh cool os karakusa/throw tech is a thing? I’ll mess around with it. it seems like with all the horrible things Makoto can do to you that people would be nuts to wakeup throw with her on top of them but it can’t hurt to figure that out.
I’ll look for visual cues on the low short and see if it gets me anywhere. yeah I figured you wouldn’t be able to truly confirm it. I’ve seen people do a few different things after low short (hayate, ex oroshi, wait then karakusa) so I’ll just keep playing around with it.
much appreciated on all the info!
Turned out I found out that this was easier as well, so thanks for the tip ^^
I also have a question in regards to the double shoryuken. Which characters does it work/not work on? I tried to do it against Remy and Oro in the corner and it didn’t seem to work.
http://ensabahnur.free.fr/BastonNew/index.php?id=11 (in ‘notes’ part) or from original source http://mopreme.livejournal.com/458.html
3S:OE, HD Remix, and VF5: FS are all half off on XBL this week for Gold members. Looks like a good opportunity for people to pick these games up! Here’s the link for proof: http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/Promotion/dealoftheweek
Hey I have a question about the Chun v Yun match.
[LEFT]I’ve seen Chun punish Genei Jin activation with raw SA2 a few times in various videos (from at least midscreen IIRC). I checked the frame data, ESN’s site lists Genei Jin startup at 9 frames and Houyokusen at 2 frames. Does this mean that Chun has 7 frames to activate SA2 on reaction? Are some of these frames covered up by the Genei Jin super freeze and don’t count? In any case, with so few frames either way, is this actually a reaction or is it a prediction?[/LEFT]
MOV can do it on reaction, I know that.