Pretty much have to agree with the tier/rankings. Kinda perplexed on why elena gets an advantage over dudley. Really surprised that yang gets an advantage instead of yun. Genei jin gets me everytime and tends to put me behind really fast.
Iâd have to agree here. From my experience, most good players (twins or not) rarely eat air fireballs -I think pretty much everyone knows that you canât jump carelessly against Urien. But Yunâs normals have excellent priority and are so fast that once he pins you down in the corner (and since youâre throwing fbs and charging your meterm chances are he will) youâre in big trouble. Every fireball that doesnât hit is not only free damage (Yun punishes FAST) but also free meter for Yun.
Then, he has a full Genei and you canât afford even the smallest mistake. And when up close, Urien doesnât have much to counter Yunâs fake dive kicks nonsense. I personally think that Yun is one of Urienâs worst match-ups. Iâve played this match about a thousand times (most of the best players here like to use Urien) and I find that at equal skill, Yun has a clear edge if he doesnt get careless.
<<13. remy
advantaged vs akuma, sean, yang, oro, hugo
no advantage vs necro, yun, ryu, elena, 12
disadvantaged vs urien, ibuki, alex, chun-li, makoto, dudley, ken, q>>
Agreeing here for the most part, though Iâd offer the following. Remy has a slight advantage versus Yun because he can beat dive kicks with j.forward and if Yun dive kicks under, can j.rh for a combo. Yun canât pressure with EX shoulder because of low booms. I think Remy goes about even with Urien because of Urienâs long fireball delay, plus itâs hard for Urien to get in a position to c.fierce Remy because Remy will rarely leave the ground. So Iâd say no advantage. I also think Remy is at no advantage versus Chun because he can wait her out pretty well, in fact today I beat an excellent Chun with links after pokes, SB keepaway and leaving parry windows. Plus Remyâs throw distance is just as good as hers so her most frustrating threat is taken away. Remy can also beat Dudley if he uses super 3, in fact you donât even really have to parry that well, because once you have meter, Dudley will be scared to attack, leaving you to either throw, counter throw or EX sb him when he rushes at you to throw. But I would say Dudley still has an advantage. Ibuki, Alex, Makoto and Q definitely own up even the pinkest hair Remy.
-Sk!
i was wondering if anyone would be so kind as to elaborate on Yangâs match-ups, why heâs advantaged against those certain people and why heâs at a disadvantage etc. also some of Twelveâs match-ups.
[quote]
*Originally posted by Cybermitsu *
**
Pretty much have to agree with the tier/rankings. Kinda perplexed on why elena gets an advantage over dudley.
Elena can range Dudley and keep him at a distance (unless you are playing Frankie 3s 'cause he will parry EVERYTHING and destroy you) her c.strong which cancels into super beats alot of his footsie, donât know this matchup very well. i agree that Elena gets an advantage over DUD though.
Frankie 3s advantage over all but like maybe 4 people in the states. late
by the way, good thread with skilled player input. thanks. late
Remy owns Ibuki for free. Iâve seen a bunch of offensive Ibuki players get low parried into his SAII. Ibuki is, from what Iâve seen, at a disadvantage against him.
Remy doesnât need to do anything but sit there and RRF every punch Didelee âoâ Dudelee does. His back dash is too good for Dud to catch up with. And no Remy player with any sense would throw a High LoV unless they anticipated a jump (cause Duds jump sucks) but s. strong is safter anyway.
Though Makoto owns the air Remy still owns the ground. That c. forward of hers is parry bait donât you think? Her c. forward-POH and her grab trap is awfully predictible. Remy can back dash, jump, or just RRF that shit.
Qâs game is usually to play defensive and parry his CBK a mile away. without this he just sucks. Remy players who know what theyâre doing will use his ugly point blank CBK reversals and his annoying throw trap in the corner. Iâve seen these matches end real fast.
Why is it that these stupid Ken/Ryu players get free cross ups? In third strike there no reason for getting smacked by it. If you try to parry at the point of contact in the wrong direction youâll still get a block. And Kens s. strong, s. fierce, whatever happened to red parrying that crap? Remy canât get owned in a wake up game due to his CBK.
Alex and CHun Li are the bitches though.
Why must Dudley get no love?
Him and Ryu should be further up, but then again itâs too hard to rank 3S players, IMO.
UhâŚ:rolleyes:
<<Remy owns Ibuki for free. Iâve seen a bunch of offensive Ibuki players get low parried into his SAII. Ibuki is, from what Iâve seen, at a disadvantage against him.>>
Ibukiâs main damage comes from comboing high first off and even if that Remy is ranging well enough to predict low combos like low rh into s. rh heâs gonna get either dash into thrown or EX/regular knife legs move. An extremely high-level red-parrying Remy would own Ibuki with SA III but Iâve yet to see it. Until then, Ibuki wins this match hands down.
<<Remy doesnât need to do anything but sit there and RRF every punch Didelee âoâ Dudelee does. His back dash is too good for Dud to catch up with. And no Remy player with any sense would throw a High LoV unless they anticipated a jump (cause Duds jump sucks) but s. strong is safter anyway. >>
Um, first off, some of Dudleyâs punches out-prioritize RRF not to mention the fact that if you start RRFing at every second dudley is going to start cross countering and back-swing punch comboing you. Back dash being good does not get Remy anywhere LOL except to the corner, which is exactly where he doesnât want to be against Dudley.
<<Though Makoto owns the air Remy still owns the ground. That c. forward of hers is parry bait donât you think? Her c. forward-POH and her grab trap is awfully predictible. Remy can back dash, jump, or just RRF that shit.>>
Grab trap awfully predictable?? LOL you have not seen a good Makoto, thatâs certain.
<<Qâs game is usually to play defensive and parry his CBK a mile away. without this he just sucks. Remy players who know what theyâre doing will use his ugly point blank CBK reversals and his annoying throw trap in the corner. Iâve seen these matches end real fast.>>
Even with great throw games Remy simply isnât going to beat a 3-taunted Q. This match is quite obviously in Qâs favor.
<<Why is it that these stupid Ken/Ryu players get free cross ups? In third strike there no reason for getting smacked by it. If you try to parry at the point of contact in the wrong direction youâll still get a block. And Kens s. strong, s. fierce, whatever happened to red parrying that crap? Remy canât get owned in a wake up game due to his CBK.>>
It actually isnât that simple, Ken can vary the timing on his j.forward slightly to throw off your option select. When blocking, your sprite becomes bigger than it is while parrying, thus there is a time differential. I used to try to block/parry option select a lot, but now I only do if Iâm desperate i.e facing Geneiâd crossup Yun or Seibu crossup Yang. Remy canât get owned in a wake up game due to his CBK? What if the opponent starts predicting with either SRK or parry? It can go either way but itâs quite obvious that Remy is on the weaker end of wake-up games since he canât deal any big damage off of a wakeup.
-Sk!
mmmh. i pretty much agree about the rankings, except for ryu and alex.
updated
read it and weep, please keep in mind that all matches are hypothetical that the players are of equal skill level
i think it was asked why the kung-fu duo owns ryu and not ken? cause ryu is way more fireball-dependent than ken, and the duo is ready to ex shoulder or tenshin sekyutai
yang beats dudley better than yun because of yangâs pokes, after yun does his 3rd jabXXshortXXstrong attempt heâs going to get red parried and blasted, yangâs mantis strikes fare much better
yun and yang arenât the same character anymore⌠uhh thatâs why theyâre in listed different places quite often 
elena owns dudley because she has so many âare-they-one-or-two-or-high-or-low?â attacks that beat dudleyâs pokes or at least trade exclusively
ibuki owns low tier but gets owned by top tiers :eek:
please keep reporting continuity errors, thanks
gill is so cheesy⌠i remember playing him on the console and jacking the comp really bad⌠gillâs ending was sweet as heel tho, id love to see the âenlightenedâ Alex⌠hed be sweet as hell
two of the things il never see cuz fighting game programmers hate me (even tho they supposedly really exist)âŚ
orochi yamazaki
gillified alex
Um, first off, some of Dudleyâs punches out-prioritize RRF not to mention the fact that if you start RRFing at every second dudley is going to start cross countering and back-swing punch comboing you. Back dash being good does not get Remy anywhere LOL except to the corner, which is exactly where he doesnât want to be against Dudley.
I still say if you can parry the punch, why not RRF it? Okay, Iâve traded hits one time and found myself RRFing his Overheads and using c. fierce against most of his punches. But I still sense Remy can s. RRF on reflex even though the EX is better. As for the backswing punch, Dudley players use that when they anticipate a throw and as long as the other person is ahead of themself they can sweep it. Lastly, itâs not like I want to back dash all day like a wuss, geez, itâs just for getting around Dudley. backdashing once and walking back for a pixel typically gets Remy enough room at times.
Grab trap awfully predictable?? LOL you have not seen a good Makoto, thatâs certain.
So she can get it after a blocked c. forward, a canceled
Personal footsweep, a dash in, that horizontal attack (forgot the name) but Remyâs low LoV keeps most of that stuff at bay. If Makoto is going to hurt you itâs because of that damn grab of hers. I typically find ways to get around her.
Now I know I havenât played all the damn Makoto players in the world but hey I know plenty about countering Makoto, Trust me.
<<Qâs game is usually to play defensive and parry his CBK a mile away. without this he just sucks. Remy players who know what theyâre doing will use his ugly point blank CBK reversals and his annoying throw trap in the corner. Iâve seen these matches end real fast.>>
No way, Iâd never let a Q player get that taunt in, I always stay his ass. Have you ever seen that throw mix up of Remys in the corner against Q where he neutral throws him, juggles with a s. attack (maybe a jab or a s. forward) and then dashes in to mix up whether heâs going to go for a grab/CBK/ c. short-SAI/SAII??? if Q decides to jump Remy gets a c. fierce combo and even if Q parries it itâll have to be executed befor the peak of his jump so that he is unable to counter Remy and will have to deal with parrying something else that Remy has in store for him. Qs pimp slap and dash punches are parry bait.
The only thing Q has going for him is his command grab comboâtaunt and his anti-poking normals.
It actually isnât that simple, Ken can vary the timing on his j.forward slightly to throw off your option select. When blocking, your sprite becomes bigger than it is while parrying, thus there is a time differential. I used to try to block/parry option select a lot, but now I only do if Iâm desperate i.e facing Geneiâd crossup Yun or Seibu crossup Yang. Remy canât get owned in a wake up game due to his CBK? What if the opponent starts predicting with either SRK or parry? It can go either way but itâs quite obvious that Remy is on the weaker end of wake-up games since he canât deal any big damage off of a wakeup.
-Sk! **
[/quote]
I still donât know about that, it seems like a no brainer. The most effective thing Iâve done against cross over happy players was to stand there like a free target and then c. fierce it or just s. strong very early.
Now as far as predicting stuff, I think that any good 3rd strike player would know that you have mix up your tactics to 2-3 more options. so of course I wouldnât use CBK all the time in a wake up game. However, wake up games are up for grabs even though in thrid strike we can still option select with the parry, however, I know what youâre thinking: am I going to overhead you, c. short- super, grab/dash back and then dashin again to grab you, DP you on wake up, option select, or super your ass? Well, do you feel lucky?
If the Makoto anticipates your low LoV, youâre going to eat an Abare Tosanami (the recovery is fast but since you seem to be throwing them all day to counter ground based attacks, it wouldnât be hard to predict). And when remy eats an Abare, heâs in big trouble (stun AND life).
Also, her EX Tsurugi pins you down FAST and isnât easy to parry, especially if youâre throwing LoVs (not enough charge time for RRFs and normal anti-airs get beaten by the EX Tsurugi). If you eat the EX Tsurugi, youâre knocked down and thatâs real bad news against Makoto (standing MP into Karakusa means free damage until you can guess parry/jump). If you block it, , Makotoâs close to you and the guessing game starts as well.
In other words, you canât keep a good Makoto at bay with just low LoVs.
This is getting ugly. Iâm going to go through this and make a bottom line on whether what youâve said would actually change the âhardâ match-ups that Remy has.
<<I still say if you can parry the punch, why not RRF it?>>
Uh because once again it will often outprioritize or trade. You acknowledge this. This makes RRFing essentially a bottom tier option for wake up with Remy.
<<As for the backswing punch, Dudley players use that when they anticipate a throw and as long as the other person is ahead of themself they can sweep it.>>
No, they use it wherever they find it useful. Especially when someone is RRFing on wakeup. And again, Dudley has cross-counters to deal with Remyâs pitiful offensive options. Your comments on back-dashing add little. Bottom line, advantage Dudley.
<<Grab trap awfully predictable?? LOL you have not seen a good Makoto, thatâs certain.
So she can get it after a blocked c. forward, a canceled
Personal footsweep, a dash in, that horizontal attack (forgot the name) but Remyâs low LoV keeps most of that stuff at bay. If Makoto is going to hurt you itâs because of that damn grab of hers. I typically find ways to get around her.
Now I know I havenât played all the damn Makoto players in the world but hey I know plenty about countering Makoto, Trust me. >>
Um, itâs not just her grab, itâs that almost everything she has outprioritizes Remyâs anti-air game with the exception of trading c.fierces, really early RRFs and LOVs. Up-close Remy canât keep her away, low LOVs are too slow and any normals will probably be parried. Makoto has a LOT of setups for her grab, many of which put Remy in a situation where he couldnât wakeup even if he guessed the mix-up, so Remy is left to jump and avoid the grab or jump and try to parry the ground to air kick (very difficult) or he just gets c.shortâ>hayate which resets. Yes, if Remy could keep Makoto at bay, he would do better, sadly he canât. She has tons of mix-up air to ground that gets her in, even if she trades occasionally. Advantage: Makoto.
<<No way, Iâd never let a Q player get that taunt in, I always stay his ass.>>
Youâve completely missed the point. The reason this match belongs to Q is precisely because you HAVE to stay on his ass, he forces Remy to play the match his way, and is going to lure you into at least one command grab for example after a parried boom, cbk or a parried boom, remy dash. Q definitely gets those taunts in, all he has to do is stomp, for example right before your fierce boom hits him to get the defense bonus. Q has nothing to fear from weak old Remy.
<< Have you ever seen that throw mix up of Remys in the corner against Q where he neutral throws him, juggles with a s. attack (maybe a jab or a s. forward) and then dashes in to mix up whether heâs going to go for a grab/CBK/ c. short-SAI/SAII??? if Q decides to jump Remy gets a c. fierce combo and even if Q parries it itâll have to be executed befor the peak of his jump so that he is unable to counter Remy and will have to deal with parrying something else that Remy has in store for him.>>
Um, this trap doesnât exist. The only two normal attacks that will hit after neutral throw are s.mp and s.mk neither of which are bufferable into dash. Q lands before you and if you choose to dash, he will super or have throw advantage. You arenât fighting against a good Q.
<<Qs pimp slap and dash punches are parry bait.>>
Youâre really reaching now. So are all moves parry bait? Dash punches come in three variations, overhead, regular and low. I have Japanese tournament footage of players choosing to block instead of risking a parry because theyâll eat a super. This is besides the point too, because even if Q ever decided to get offensive with Remy, the dash punches would get him nowhere against the wall of SBs youâre throwing. Bottom line: Advantage Q.
<<It actually isnât that simple, Ken can vary the timing on his j.forward slightly to throw off your option select. When blocking, your sprite becomes bigger than it is while parrying, thus there is a time differential. I used to try to block/parry option select a lot, but now I only do if Iâm desperate i.e facing Geneiâd crossup Yun or Seibu crossup Yang. Remy canât get owned in a wake up game due to his CBK? What if the opponent starts predicting with either SRK or parry? It can go either way but itâs quite obvious that Remy is on the weaker end of wake-up games since he canât deal any big damage off of a wakeup.
-Sk! **
[/quote]
I still donât know about that, it seems like a no brainer. The most effective thing Iâve done against cross over happy players was to stand there like a free target and then c. fierce it or just s. strong very early.>>
Um, if someone is crossing you up from full screen, you are playing against 12 year olds. Crossups are only viable off of knockdowns or when the opponent has committed to an attack.
<<Now as far as predicting stuff, I think that any good 3rd strike player would know that you have mix up your tactics to 2-3 more options. so of course I wouldnât use CBK all the time in a wake up game. However, wake up games are up for grabs even though in thrid strike we can still option select with the parry, however, I know what youâre thinking: am I going to overhead you, c. short- super, grab/dash back and then dashin again to grab you, DP you on wake up, option select, or super your ass? Well, do you feel lucky?>>
What does this have to do with Remy? And I donât think anyone is fearing the âc.short into superâ LOLâŚ
Wow.
-Sk!
Obviously, I didnât account for all the facets and if I did I wouldâve posted more than 10 times. My point was that Remy does have certain things that he can do to get around certain situations. And as long as a Remy player uses the proper moves for X scenarios Remy will be advantaged and as long as Remy does something stupid, X will be advantaged. However you thought that everything I said was something that I would do all the time, and no one would do the same thing all the time. For example if Makoto has a habit of doing her EX overhead after a c. short, Remy might RRF between the attacks. But a smart Remy would anticipate that the second or third time Makoto does c. short, she is going to block an anticipated RRF after the c. short. And of yeah there are many other things that might occur.
Now BillyKane, I wouldnât Low LoV when Makoto has a SAII ready (I almost have to laugh at this) , but I might throw a j. LoV (which takes good timing and a good sense of position for SAII to get around). One time, I saw Remy throw a LoV at Makoto with her in the corner and she did the super only to get smacked by it.
<<No way, Iâd never let a Q player get that taunt in, I always stay his ass.>>
<< Have you ever seen that throw mix up of Remys in the corner against Q where he neutral throws him, juggles with a s. attack (maybe a jab or a s. forward) and then dashes in to mix up whether heâs going to go for a grab/CBK/ c. short-SAI/SAII??? if Q decides to jump Remy gets a c. fierce combo and even if Q parries it itâll have to be executed befor the peak of his jump so that he is unable to counter Remy and will have to deal with parrying something else that Remy has in store for him.>>
Um, this trap doesnât exist. The only two normal attacks that will hit after neutral throw are s.mp and s.mk neither of which are bufferable into dash. Q lands before you and if you choose to dash, he will super or have throw advantage. You arenât fighting against a good Q.
Just promise me that youâll neutral throw Q in the corner and see if you can juggle him with a s. jab. The s. jab does give Remy enough time to dash in before Q can do anything.
<<Um, if someone is crossing you up from full screen, you are playing against 12 year olds. UmmmâŚI never even mentioned full screen so forget it.>>
If I get crazy, the next time I see another thread like this Iâm not going to have any respect for it unless it virtually has an infinite list of technical scenarios posted. I am convinced that this is what 3rd strike is all about.
<<Just promise me that youâll neutral throw Q in the corner and see if you can juggle him with a s. jab. The s. jab does give Remy enough time to dash in before Q can do anything. >>
You may be right since Qâs body is bigger than normal. I will try tomorrow. Still, Q will be able to super any throw/cbk attempt.
<<Um, if someone is crossing you up from full screen, you are playing against 12 year olds. UmmmâŚI never even mentioned full screen so forget it.>>
You didnât specifically say full screen but you said:
âThe most effective thing Iâve done against cross over happy players was to stand there like a free target and then c. fierce it or just s. strong very early.â
To hit with a c.fierce, you need a lot of advanced notice and if someone is going to be crossing you up, classic example is Ken, the only way heâs going to cross you up and be vulnerable to a c.fierce is if he super jumps from full screen or regular jumps from about sweep range. What I shouldâve said is âAnyone who is trying to cross you up with enough window for you to get a c.fierce is not a good player.â
-Sk!
Unfortunately, throwing a high LoV at any speed usually means Remy eats it. Makoto gets a free shot at Remy because she can physically dash under a punch LoV, as well as CBKs half the time (and Yunâs dive kick bullshit for that matter).
Furthermore, Remyâs stun meter is so fragile that one bad guess basically means Remyâs at 50% stun, depending on what super Makoto has.
RRF is a 1-hit low-parry, which also rules it out as a decent wakeup, unless you use the EX version. But you canât always rely on those, especially if youâre dependent on SA III to scare your opponent.
(At least, Iâm pretty sure itâs a low parry. I know uppercuts are for the 1st hit.)
Finally, part of Makotoâs mixup game also involves C.Roundhouse, which does a disgusting amount of stun and nails jumps (except certain odd ones like Necro) before they even start. It also hits crouching characters, oddly enough.
This match just isnât good for him. Remy has few ways to regain the lead in both stun, damage and territory that Makoto achieves far too easily.
Yo Arlieth,
I'll be on the lookout for hot Makoto action this weekend at the 3s 3x3...maybe I'll even put in a request for some Tanden Renki action.
-Sk!
Without even taking what Arlieth said in consideration, have you seen the short time it takes to charge an Abare meter, especially against someone whoâs throwing projectiles to keep you at bay (read: free meter)? No offense, but I almost have to laugh at your strategy here. Youâre keeping Makoto at bay for what, 10 seconds?