Every notice how certain moves change a players position. An obvious example of this is Akuma/Ryu F+Strong, each moves the character forward for a few frames. If you cancel the startup frames into a throw (such as a 360 or a standard throw) the throw is actually performed at a different position than when you started. This allows for a throw to come out in 1 frame like normal, but several pixels away from the actual player position. I think theres a guide somewhere on SRK. Obviously performing a 360 inside of a small amount of time takes great stick control, but mastery provides such sweetness. Be warned that not every kara is safe, for example makotos command throw kara (which happens to be s. short) can hit the other player, pushing them away. It also has the standard short startup time, which is a few frames. Command throws also have a few frames of startup time, so they’re not as instant as normal throw karas. All this might mean nothing to you. Let me give you an example. Go to the arcade/dreamcast and pick akuma. Do his two hit command overhead (F + strong), and then immediately after hit throw. You should see him throw, and grunt at the same time. This is the easiast way to learn to kara, because of the audio cue. Its the way I learned. Basically you should input the throw right after the strong. I hope this answers your question. In a nutshell a kara is just extending the range of a command or normal throw. Blah. Please correct me wherever I am wrong.
hey zephyre,
do u have any videos of someone using hugo and doing kara 360/720?? i know it’s possible… but i’ve never witnessed it before…
i can do 360 or 720 in a neutral position just fine… but i can’t seem to figure out the timing and speed of a kara command throw (other than makoto’s)
since i can do 720 without bufferring/using kara cancel… i don’t really see the advantage for hugo to do a kara 360/720 unless it advances hugo forward by a significant amount… then again i can’t do it so i can’t really judge the usefulness of kara 360/720 
Hi supapuffy,
How do you perform the standing Gigas?
Thanks,
Kenshiro
hey
i do 360’s by going something like (b, db, d, df, f, b+punch) or it might actually be (b, db, d, df, f, uf, b+punch) or somewhere in between… so it’s like a half circle then i pull the joystick the other way… this way when someone jumps in… i can walk back until i am out of their kick range and then just as they land i do (b, db, d, df, f, b+punch) to 360 them right when they land
doing a standing 720 is the same motion… but u just gotta do it fast and precise
check out the vids at my webpage (link in sig) to see how deadly this can be 
Using hugos S. Forward, he gets the longest range Kara in the game (32 pixels). The advantage is suprise, and of course to show off. Videos of this? Not that I know of. Not many American players think this is worthwhile. I think it is, because it brings your stick control to another level. While many player may be really good at predicting and adapting, stick control should be pretty high. Anyway, I cannot do the kara 360. When I have seen it, it pretty much S. Forward ~ 360. There is no different in the timing of when the command should be inputed for the normal throw or the 360. So if for example, the normal throw (in order to be kara’d) needs to be hit precisely at the second frame of animation, the punch for the throw (360) must be hit on the second frame. This is why its so difficult. Many people can kara normal throws; why not, its only two buttons? But many command throws require a lot to input (Hugos being the most amount of input).
Take this with a grain of salt:
The kara may not be something you go and learn. 3S, I have found, is not about learning some combo against the training dummy and using it in game. Its about trying stuff in a match. The best personal example I can give would be Genei Jin juggles for me. I can sit here at do Genei Jin combos against the practice dummy all day long. But when match time comes, I mess up. Over time however, and forcing myself to try, my Genei Jin usage just fits into my game naturally. I bust out new forms of it every time I play simply because I know which moves do what to the character in the air. A friend of a friend that plays MVC2 (Dan Lee) is so good at understanding exactly how Magneto’s moves work that he can make mid air corrections during infinates. Guy goes to high, do this move then and he goes here, ready for this move.
The kara throw is an example of a move not fitting into peoples games because they force it. Many akuma/ryu players at FNG/8OTB* will jump in, c. short and then kara. This pattern/setup for the kara becomes pretty predictable. And its almost like a forced use of the kara, it doesn’t flow IMO. And so the best way to incorporate/learn the 360 kara is to play Hugo in a match, and when you feel that you have reached a point in the match where 360/normal kara would work well, go for it, even if you can’t do it. You can fall back on your old Hugo style, but don’t expect your Hugo to grow. Maybe you will in terms of prediction, adaption, stick control, etc. But your Hugo will still have the same move set, setups, and combos he always did. This may not be a bad thing. The best American Hugo player I’ve seen can’t do the kara, but then again his game does not need it. He has other setups (I learned the clap dash cancel from him) that make up for it. I don’t want you to go out of this post feeling that “In order to be a good Hugo player I need to Kara 360” or “I don’t play Hugo but if I could Kara 360 I’d get mad chicks.” I find this a lot in MVC2 players (no bashing, just an observation). Your game must flow to be good.
If you don’t feel your Hugo going anywhere maybe its because you’ve reached the end with him (which can happen, ecspecially with “low tier” characters). A person can be good with every character in the game. This is NOT true of “grooving” with the character. It may sound stupid and sappy but trust me, when you groove with your character, you groove.
*Two arcades in NJ I used to frequent, 8OTB holds ECC annually
great thread, i’m a wanna-be hugo player and i can definitely use a lot of the information i’ve seen here. thanks guys, and keep the posts coming. i’ll probably post a few questions here once i get home and can be in front of my home computer and dreamcast at the same time.
peace.
Zephyre, what do you see when the kara 360 comes out? Is it just extra distance, nothing else. I thought I’d spend some time trying it since I play a good Hugo anyway and just want to see something new.
Whats the “clap dash cancel”? Claping isn’t usually part of my arsenal, I tend to play a poking Hugo.
Peace.
If you’ve played Zangief before, it’s sort of like what he does with green hand, you do the clap to get you closer to the opponent and time to buffer a 360.
Thanks Geekboy.
i had a good session this evening with hugo, and was curious about matches with him vs. q. anyone have some general pointers?
I think Zephyre explained pretty clearly what he meant by clap dash cancel. You do a clap, they block it, you dash the moment you recover from clapping (not really a cancel, but it looks like it), then you grab them with a SPD or Gigas. I thought this technique was good when I discovered it (same day I read about it here, as a matter of fact 
). However, I didn’t realize how powerful it actually is. I assumed that dashing after the clap was just confusing and would make them freeze up and not react in time. If you use a fierce clap, they CAN’T react in time, at least not during the dash. If you dash after a blocked fierce clap, they block stun from the clap covers the -entire- time you’re dashing, -plus- at least another frame or two. Observe this vid I made:
http://www.animeism.com/temp/Clapstun.zip
The reason the Gigas doesn’t connect is because they are still in block stun. There is actually is very small window when they are coming out of block stun where they are ungrabbable but can move/attack. If you delay the dash (or Gigas) by a couple of frames, this “problem” is alleviated. Regular SPD doesn’t have this problem because it takes a couple more frames to come out than the Gigas does.
As a result, the only way they can stop you from grabbing them is by holding up pretty much during the entire dash (or tapping up at the last moment, of course) or using a very fast attack (jab or faster) to hit you right at the last moment before the grab comes out. Of course, if you expect a jump (which is really the smartest thing to do, in general), you can switch the SPD for back breaker or the Gigas for Megaton. I guess the -actual- smart thing to do is mash on low jab. =)
Keep in mind, this is all for fierce clap. The other claps create less block stun.
Slim:
You gotta be scared of doing c. jabs repeatedly…they don’t create enough distance to escape the Gigas. My friend has done this to me when I was using Hugo. With Ryu, he did c. jab x 3, and I did Gigas and still grabbed him.
LOL:lol:
hugo is too good…
Does anybody know where to find some videos of hugo in action?
Heheh. You know, I didn’t think of that. I was just noticing how the jabs will hit you before you can grab, I didn’t think of how you can just keep trying to Gigas anyway and just sac it. =) Good call.
check my site (link in sig… scroll down on the left frame to find the link to 3rdstrike) for some short hugo combos/match vids… i don’t have much room on the servers so i only made short clips
great dizzy juggle combo :eek: can’t wait to try that out on my friends, just got through practicing it for a while…
you can combo a megatron press off of a neutral thrown cornered opponent
Actually I think the reason the gigas can go through jabs is because by extending a part of your body you can be thrown, and nothing is faster than a super art. The game system processes super arts before jabs. And since the gigas breaker comes out in one frame, the jab just sorta puts you in the right spot. This is so friggin annoying, ecspecially against scrub ryu players who accidently get the shin-sho-ryuken off when you’re poking them. I think that hugo is less of a combo character, just be aware going in. When I first started playing 3s, I learned Yun, who at the time was not very popular. Yun has a lot of set combos, things that always work. Not many cancels. Anyway, when I moved to shotos I had so much trouble because they don’t have combos like Yun. I got so frustrated, I was forced to learn akuma, who had many combos. Anyway, the point of the story is don’t look for combos, look for damage. Probably the biggest problem with new 3S players, and even old players is they don’t look at what the other guy is doing, in the short term and long term.
Hugo is not a good character. Im sorry. Sure he’s fun, but when you take him to CTF and play a good japanese chun li, you will lose miserably. The point is the game is not fun because chun li always wins. The point of the game is that each character is diverse, and still fun to play. Generally screwing around in 3S is more fun then actually trying to win. I honestly hate playing good ryu players, cause all they do is turtle… and turtle… and turtle… How is this fun to play? It certainly isn’t fun to play against. So the strength of Hugo lies in doing stupid things like dashing during the clap block stun (thanks for the correction, I always thought it was a cancel). Ever wonder how the “pros” come up with their tricks? They screw around to no end.
<OPINION = No flame>
Stop coming to SRK and looking for initial help. Instead sit at the 3S cabinet with the computer or your friend and say “Wow, I can do all Hugo’s moves consitantly, lets see if I can do some cool setups.” Just try it. Look at hugo and say “Damn, I wonder if I could force the guy to jump by constantly clapping him, thats a perfect setup for Megaton Press” or “Damn, everyone crouches there, how can I punish that” or “Everyone turtles there, ill just do my rush-grab move.” Well those are stupid examples, but looking for someone elses style/combos here on SRK never works. All you get is a bunch of neato tricks that don’t work into the overall game plan. I would say play 3S the way you want, and try to put the neato tricks into that, instead of trying to make a game around neato tricks. Best example, when I first tried to learn Alex, I built my game around the Stun Gun Headbutt setup (cancel out of charging arm thingy [I don’t bother to learn move names, its stupid and a waste of precious brain space] cancel into SGH which leaves them in block stun so that they sit there and take SGH, unless of course they’re smart enough to dash, or do anything else. Its a stupid setup obviously). Anyway, my alex sucked, alot. I picked him up again to make fun of a scrub who was doing the same thing to me about a year later. Sitting there, trying to do the cancel, OVER AND OVER. Anyhow, I played alex differently, and now he’s my groove character. Not my best character, but Alex and I get along pretty well. So much that I enjoy him more than any other character in the game.
</OPINION>
This is the first time I’ve ever posted on 3S strategy (this forum). Now I don’t claim to be good at the game, but I know good players. I know how they think because they tell me. Good players are not special people. Justin Wong is good because he can adapt. Adapt, recognize patterns, and react. Stupid analogy time: Your 3S game is not a computer/honda civic, its something you have to develop internally. No matter how many combos you get, you’ll never get good unless you work on yourself in the process. Thats my daily dose of zen. Good night everyone.
Zephyre’s a thug. He’s cool enough to be in my sig. Therefore, listen up. Don’t worry, if you can read this I can most likely beat you at Third Strike, so my opinion is definite valid. You too JR. Urien owns Akuma for free. Damn sklippy.
N