pretty sure its just a straight up difficult link, but probably easier when shes cornered
If itās on Makoto, she tends to have a few more frames of hit stun or a wider hurtbox than the rest of the cast. I recall Makoto being the only standing character that Dudley can combo st. rh xx ducking upper against.
strangely that Dud combo works on the twins standing too. no clue why.
I remember hearing that specifically cl.MK with ryu had better hit stun against Makoto standing, but I dunno. Sheās also the only character you can link Seanās TC into SA3.
Like pherai said, itās just a link that works on her. Most Ryuās will/should opt to do that on a stunned Makoto (especially when sheās cornered), because that forces stand and makes the first jump in easier to time, also the link itself feels easier against a stunned Makā¦ thatās just my opinion though, no evidence. Midscreen, you can either hit a j.RH kinda early when youāre right on top of Mak, or you can hit it a bit later and walk forward for a few frames before the st.Fwd.
Being hit out of EX Aegis isnāt that uncommon, especially if itās done a little ways away from your opponent. However, having the EX reflector itself not come out, is something very uncommon when itās facing another super.
That is weird but explains a lot. It seems like a very strange way to code a fighting game. It reminds me, I think in all the years Iāve played Third Strike, Iāve seen supers activate at the same time only once. Usually itās one, then the other like you posted, even when done at the same time.
Very interesting discovery about Ibukiās grab super vs EX Aegis. You did mean the grab version right?
Hey, doesnāt Oroās Oodama (big yellow super) continue its path even when the screen is paused for a super? I bet you could cause an EX Aegis failure with that too.
Yeah, but thatās only because all players have more recovery frames when hit into (not during) a dizzy or when hit while crouching unless the attack would have put a standing player into a ābackturnā state.
Shoto dHP is great for canceling from though. Not unreliable like cHP and seems to give more stun frames to the enemy. Compare Goukiās cHP x LP Red Fireball with dHP x LP Red Fireball. Only the second will combo against a standing, undizzy target.
I know what youāre saying has some grand meaning, Iām almost certain of it, but knowing that not many supers are one frame I would think itās pretty straight forward to assume that aegis will generally be executed if any other super has start up not-yet-the-next-frame seeing as aegis is already projected out by the next frame and at the same time not tied to Urienās ābodyā(where a hit or trade would prevent the super). So if there were more 1 frame supers they couldnāt possibly stuff Urienās simultaneously executed 1 frame super because theyād have to have already stuffed it for it to not come out. A meaty attack would definitely keep it from happening, even from up close because, technically, Urien was already hit.
Urien parrying a fireball super and then EX aegis-ing in the middle of it. Now thatās something I would like to see. Thatās the kind of thing I used to look into in my FFA days and early tests of OE and ggpo. OE made it impossible, for me a would be arcade player, to do this with latency and lag. GGPO allows it, though.
Can you remember which supers were activated when they happened at the same time?
Yeah, the grab version. Itās stated that Ibukiās SA2 is 0 frame, but itās only zero after the freeze, thereās animation before the super, which is why I think it stuffs EX Aegis.
Havenāt tried that yet, but I canāt recall if that happens or not.
I knew the cause of it, was just confirming that Mak does remain in hitstun from cl.Fwd for at least 1 additional frame.
I did not know that about backturns! Thatās interesting = )
That could be attributed (Iām not certain) to the ability that cr.Fierce has that st.Fierce doesnāt, cancelling it on its first hitting frame.
I was just pointing out something that I found interesting, nothing to take note of, it shouldnāt matter gameplay wise, it just amused me is all.
Maybe because of the wider base on their hitboxs? I always wondered how Kenās TC->Fierce Shoryu->SA3 worked on just a few of the castā¦
Another thingā¦ does anybody know the normals that have different damage outputs depending on which frame they connect on? Only 1 comes to mind, Makotoās 9.Fierce. If you press it closer to the start of your jump, it can do 2 more dmg (OE based) than if you hit it kinda deep.
iām still weirded out by the strange self cancelling of remy and ryuās far forwards.
specifically because esnās site lists ryuās far forward as having that. but not remyās but you can do the exact same thing with remy.
and the thing is it cancels into where that frame is used at the start of the normal.
in both cases when their upper leg is up, knee bent, before they extend their lower leg.
Sorry, it was a long time ago and I donāt remember.
The only other normal I know of with that property is Alexās jump HP.
I had some misconceptions about Urien parrying cr jab, and landing cr fierce. so in this scenario, if the twins cr jab gets parried, Uriens low fierce does not hit. As far as Iām aware, their low jabs are the only exception.
**start up/active/recovery
**
yangs low jab: 3/2/6
yuns low jab: 4/2/6
kens low jab: 4/3/5
chuns low jab: 2/4/5
uriens low fierce: 9/1/25
Is it because the active frames are shorter for the twins and thats why low jab cannot be punished with cr fierce on parry? clearly their recovery is longer than the other characters.
Before dander comments, Iām aware that finding out the reasoning behind this is not practical. knowing why cr fierce as a punish for cr jab doesnāt work on twins isnāt as important as knowing the simple fact that it does not work. please stay out of the discussion on this topic I brought up. thanks.
GGPO
Interesting.
So if they jab and then do nothing theyāre going to have remaining active + recovery + parry bonus.
Looking at active + recovery, the twins are the same as ken, total of 8 frames.
Maybe hitboxes somehow?
Also on the topic of normals with different qualities depending on when they connect.
Remyās close fierce. If you hit with it early/when the opponent is in front of remy they do the standard air recovery (flip back and land on feet)
if you hit them with it late/right above or even behind remy they go into knockdown state in the air though they canāt be juggled (as far as i can tell with what iāve tried) and land knocked down.
Hey guys, Iāve skimmed through this thread but 10 pages is quite a lot. I understand about frame data, there was something I was hoping one of you guys could help me out. Im interested in knowing if there is a resource about finding out which moves/super arts have invincibility frames, Or is it already within the frame data collection?
Cheers for the help
Hahahaha I was actually thinking about how thereās never any invicibility frame data.
Also, you are going to use this info, right? Bravo.
ESNās site has a move animator that shows hit boxes, so you can see when the vulnerability boxes go away, the move is invincible
fun fact - The only shoryus that retain some invincibility frames post start up are Ken EX, Ryu EX and Gouki HP
Do you think we could get some more clear uses for it by delegating a value to it? Kinda how we do start up, active, recovery. Or does it not fit into this model? Iām aware it would be cause for some overlap and so might be a bit too ambiguous for just anyone to be able to read effectively.
Hahaha I was about ten minutes from linking to exactly these examples.
I donāt think it needs its own category like startup, active, recovery or anything.
a note or icon to denote that it has some form of extreme priority (in the form of invincibility) would probably be useful to newer players trying to understand certain outcomes.
something i had noted in some of my info iām working on. just been really slow due to life and my own other projects unfortunately :<
feel kind of bad about how slow iāve been when i think of it now but itāll come around and iāll put up some fun/cool/useful stuff.
Holy hell this thread is still alive. To think I made this post 10 years ago.
You mean for shotos only?