2015 UMVC3 SRK Tier/Theory Discussion. 7/10 First Page Tumblr: Power of snapback, Future power teams

[TMNTemps]

Yes… if you both go for it at the same time. But, like I said. If you start chest to chest with Thor, jump away from him.

All jumps are not created equal and most point characters’ jumps will take them out of the range of a “TK command grab” (especially since it’s a HCB motion which makes TKing and jumping forward more difficult) while sticking out a limb to hit him if (and likely when) it misses. Furthermore, the Thor player would have to gamble on an air command grab which has much more recovery and can’t be canceled into anything but super while a standard H limb is comparatively “faster” making it riskier than a typical throw. Then you have to take into account the fact that executing the motion isn’t “1 frame.”

I play Duck’s Thor a lot… this ain’t true man, if you go chest bumping Thor round start he just has to guess ground grab or air grab and he will beat anything you can do. seeing as how that will always kill your character, you gotta give him respect. best thing to do against Thor is just back up and look to punish his approach and get your momentum that way. trying to take control of the match frame 1 against him is a really bad idea and the odds are stacked heavily against you.

[DrewGrimey]

Overall PR Rog isn’t doing much with point Wolvie that he couldn’t have done with Wesker who has a bit better of a time against the flood. Not greatly, but significant.

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Wesker has no instant overheads, his left/right game isn’t as strong, his damage isn’t near wolvie’s due to fatal claw loop, I’d say Wolverine has better normals than Wesker as well

[DevilJin_01]

Wesker has no instant overheads, his left/right game isn’t as strong, his damage isn’t near wolvie’s due to fatal claw loop, I’d say Wolverine has better normal than Wesker as well

Yeah Wolverine has better tools once he gets in though I would say Wesker has better tools for getting in. Also better tools if he gets pushed out.

Wolvie works because he’s simply the best at his concentrated spot. Its just there’s only a few Wolvie players that can get over his weakness towards being fucked if he doesn’t get in that spot.

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[AceKillah]

Wesker’s damage without glasses is about the same as Wolverine as long as you do real combos and not the BBCS relaunch bullshit. Without glasses his damage goes to like 870-900k with 1 bar while building a little over 2. He has better grounded normals but Wolverine has better air normals. Honestly I’m more scared of Wesker + Disrupter then I am Wolverine + anything (unless hes in XF2 + Berserkere Charge because fuck that shit) then again Dallas has mad Wolverine players so I just have a good amount of matchup knowledge against him and not as much against point Wesker.

[NonSexualRice]

Snapback is universal.
A lot of characters have invincible reversals like Bionic Arm or EX seismo or even lariat.
If you didn’t finish your chain or have a f/b+H move you can use that to chain into ground throw(ie Shield Skills).
Armor Piercer comes out faster than most moves, same goes for most DP moves, some of which are invincible.
Command grab characters can cancel whatever they are doing into their command grab.

People seem to forget that you can Somersault Reversal on wakeup, and then cancel into another somersault,etc. It’s a great one too.

[undertheicefloe]

what if the zero doesn’t do “something stupid”

this is a pretty matchup specific thing but haggar has a really hard time throwing zero at the start of the round due to how zero’s forward H and back H work

this limits haggar’s option to lariat to beat mash throw and that’s about it (blocking something from zero is usually not the best idea since he’ll have buster at that point)

sure zero can’t reliably mix haggar up with M teleport but he doesn’t have to since he zones him out pretty hard, can bait lariats with assist calls, and can punish a lot of haggar’s moves with buster lightning or buster teleport

Sure, but we’re just talking start of the round here. Once Zero gets space it’s over. I was just saying that Magneto has an easier time of getting that space.

[Eskills]

Sure, but we’re just talking start of the round here. Once Zero gets space it’s over. I was just saying that Magneto has an easier time of getting that space.

I disagree, Zero has one of the best back dashes.
If he needs space there isn’t anything Haggar can do to stop him from getting it.

[DrewGrimey]

Yeah Wolverine has better tools once he gets in though I would say Wesker has better tools for getting in. Also better tools if he gets pushed out.

Wolvie works because he’s simply the best at his concentrated spot. Its just there’s only a few Wolvie players that can get over his weakness towards being fucked if he doesn’t get in that spot.

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Also, don’t forget that Rog is using plasma beam assist, decent start-up, full screen, high durability, it’s great for clearing the way in

[EnDaNickofTime]

Wesker has no instant overheads, his left/right game isn’t as strong, his damage isn’t near wolvie’s due to fatal claw loop, I’d say Wolverine has better normals than Wesker as well

Didn’t Chris use missiles the entire time tho? I have always thought that wolverine loses to zoning/ beam assist… seeing as he would have to take to the air to fight it…

[leafcolonel]

Wesker and Wolverine are different character archetypes, so I don’t know why they are being compared. Both are very strong point characters but play completely differently.

Wolverine is a completely ham rushdown character with relentless pressure with assists with some basic footsies, whileas Wesker is primarily a zoning hit and run character that abuses air gun shots + assist or gunshot with assist + teleport to approach. Wesker is a very scary character with the proper team setups ie Wesker/Dante/Magneto or Wesker/Dante/Strider or Wesker/Doom/Strider which allow him to abuse his stupid left/rights and abuse samurai edge very well. Every blocked Samurai edge which is a very fast startup beam which is teleport cancelable leads into a full mixup. He doesn’t play anywhere near Wolverine as he plays footsies and uses Samurai Edge to approach primarily. Whileas Wolverine gets on your ass and humps it the entire round with assists, berserker slashes and divekicks, along with normals that stuff everything and mixups that are pure guesses.

IMO both off them have top 5 mixups in this game along with RR, Firebrand, and Strider. The combination of Wolverine’s 4 way high/low/left/right game is very strong, and so is Wesker’s left/right/low/grab game.

Wolverine is a top 6 point free(along with Morrigan,Magneto,Viper,Vergil, Zero), anyone that disagrees is wrong. Wesker is top 10-15ish.

[AceKillah]

Wolverine is a top 6 point free

I dunno I’m just not that scared of him I mean he ha-

anyone that disagrees is wrong. Wesker is top 10-15ish.

[EnDaNickofTime]

Also, the order in best beam assists goes

1. Magneto
2. Modok
3. Iron Man
4. Doom
5. Strange

the rest are pretty meh… storm does have the most durability on hers tho… Best beam assist for zoning…

[Din0]

but when you refer to point character game… that means he is good at the start of the round too? what does he have that wesker, Hulk, Thor, and felicia don’t do better at the start of the round, Aren’t his buttons kinda slow too?

I think Wesker is better than him on point. Actually add Nova to that list too. Spencer just has a better approach/pressure game when assisted IMO and his abare is very strong and always converts to a kill. He’s just one of those characters that let you go super-aggro ie. Knives. I agree his start of the round options aren’t phenomenal though.

[Chrisis]

People seem to forget that you can Somersault Reversal on wakeup, and then cancel into another somersault,etc. It’s a great one too.

How do you do it without having the Feral get hit on the frames before you can somersault? I need to know this for my Jill subteam. >.>

[leafcolonel]

Storm has a beam assist? News to me.

Best beam assist depends on your point character though. Disruptor is extremely good for quick left/right teleport characters like Wesker/Dante/Dorm but isn’t that optimal for most of the cast. Bolts or Unibeam are best for characters to approach from full screen and setup lockdown for mixups, Plasma Beam is slightly worse due to it not keeping characters standing. One godlike beam assist that simply goes ignored because the character is so underused is Chris’s Machine Gun assist, which is basically unibeam.

I think Wesker as a character is holistically better than Wolverine, I think he’s top 10 overall whileas Wolverine is not. But, at 99 seconds when he’s humping you,Wolverine is a better point character than most, and that makes him a top 6 point to me. His options are too strong upclose.

[Robotic]

Chris’ Gunshot is indeed really good. I think it’s a bit slower on startup, but it has great chip damage.

[AceKillah]

What does Psionic Blaster have over Unibeam besides the soft knockdown?

[EnDaNickofTime]

What does Psionic Blaster have over Unibeam besides the soft knockdown?

faster start up and more durability… also its pink… less hits too

[TMNTemps]

What does Psionic Blaster have over Unibeam besides the soft knockdown?

faster startup iirc and an insane hitbox. Psionic Blaster has a really awesome hitbox, hits very high above itself. IIRC though it can be crouched by a decent portion of the cast.

[tab]

'Can be crouched, better antiair hitbox. Also whirlwind has more startup than cold star. What the fuck is that garbage. Chris machinegun is flawed bc the hitbox is small and the active frames aren’t that long, it doesn’t have a huge coverage that hits jumping dudes pressing buttons which I think is an importa~ aspect of beam assists.