2013 SSF4 A.E. Zangief Change list

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
41

http://www.capcom-unity.com/street_fighter/go/thread/view/7411/29831855/zangief-balance-suggestions

Combofiend has opened up discussions on the next characters to rebalance, post your thoughts here.

No it’s not.

42

Ok, so make a lets get a final count on what we want and need… so forr need lists your top 5 items and list your top 3 wanted items .

43

I think we’ve earned the right to ask for lots of buffs considering that Zangief has a metric fuckton of bad matchups and they’re only going to get worse with the next patch. Those of you claiming that Zangief only needs “a few buffs” are forgetting the fact that everyone in the new version is getting changes as well, most likely changes that’ll make our lives even more miserable. This is what caused us to suffer in the last patch: Gief got nerfed by virtue of everyone else getting great buffs. So no, this time we get greedy.

Simplified U2 input

Bigger U2 grab box, able to grab everything that’s airborne (invincible or not)

Damage buff to jab SPD, normals, EXGH, Ultra 1

Bigger EXGH hitbox so it always hits twice

More frame advantage on EXGH

Make RBG faster and dash cancellable

Damage buff to RBG (+10 to each normal one, +20 to EX)

Increased Super range

Take away St. MK’s frame disadvantage

44

I agree that matchups will only get worse for Gief and that just makes me sad cause that’s bullshit. They’ve made him worse with every update and it’s gonna happen again this time. Hawk might even end up better when all is said and done. Now we all know that ex.gh will never kd again so here are the REASONABLE changes I’d like to see:

Change u2 input so we can actually react to jumps and take the guessing out of it
Be able to activate u2 on the ground as well so we don’t accidentally run across the screen like a serial rapist
Better yet, just get rid of rbg all together cause it’s useless
Get rid of that close st.lk shin kick move cause it’s also useless
Quicker far sweep and st.rh
Fix st.mk so it’s not so unsafe on hit cause that’s bullshit
Damage buff on normals, jab spd, ex.gh, and u2
Reasonable meter gain when absorbing fireballs with regular gh’s
Make ex.gh less punishable on hit when it only hits once(Ryu should not be able to sweep you when you punish a fireball)

That’s all I can think of now but I really think these are reasonable requests and nothing over the top at all. Sadly, I think every single bad matchup Gief has will only get worse except for maybe Akuma. Instead of being disappointed yet again I’m just gonna assume that they’re gonna make him worse and be pleasantly surprised if he improves at all. I’m totally expecting Gief to be completely low tier after this update but I hope I’m wrong.

45

We have until the 4th to make our voices heard. Better get in there you guys, post the same things I posted.

46

I think you guys are asking for too much. Easier input for U2 + better grab box + ability to do it grounded + being able to grab everything and Dash cancel on RGB and damage buffs to a ton of stuff? come on, let’s get realistic.

As I said earlier, I don’t think Gief needs many things, I’d like for cr.lp to get 10 more damage, for EX GH to knockdown again (even if it ends up being not comboable in order to balance it out, as long as they make lp greenhand safe on hit) and for st.mk to be safe (or not so punishable at least) on hit, and maybe for KKK lariat to have instant fireball invincibility, those are changes that would make Gief still be a footsie oriented character, but he would have better ways to start his upclose game and be more damaging at it.

I don’t think Gief needs an easier U2 input, honestly, there are more important things to buff.

47

what’s wrong with the input now for U2? Why would you want to change the input? I don’t care about much else, just do something about RGB

48

The only thing wrong with the U2 input is the end user’s ability to get it out. That’s whats wrong with it. :slight_smile:

If Ultra 2 could be activated during pre-jump frames, that would be sweet. No more penalty EX RBG!!!

Plus, it would transform ALL EXGH on hit, into U2 mixups. (At current its only an U1 mixup) Thus, no need to make EXGH +3 on hit. Sibberian Sweetness indeed.

49

Yeah. I was thinking the same thing. EXGH to knockdown, but have the startup of HPGH. So one could no longer hit confirm into it, or option select into it. But use it to close distance.

It would be the ace in the whole to get in on Sagat, since when you get into range, you effectively neutralize his tools (far st.hk, and tigers)

You could still land cl.mp and cl.mk xx EXGH combos, and could possibly hit confirm off of a jump in, or cross up.

50

Definitely need KD on EX green hand back, this is the most important thing!

51

EDIT: Added explanations for my changes. Probably gonna post this on CU.

  • Regular GH safe on hit (THIS NEEDS TO FUCKING HAPPEN!)

    • It’s just completely inexcusable for this move to be punishable on hit. In no fighting game should you ever
      be penalized for cleanly landing a special.

  • Knockdown on EX GH

    • Without this, Zangief loses the fear needed to keep people on the ground. After an EX hand combo, the
      opponent can either stay grounded and get scooped or jump back and either make Zangief do 1 frame links
      and waste another meter just to keep them grounded or eat a normal, the worst being st.RH. And if they
      have a reversal and bars, the “guess” is even more of a no-brainer.

  • Ability to dash-cancel RBG

    • At this point, everyone should realize that this is just an accident move. It comes out when we mess up
      inputs. That’s the only time you see it; otherwise it’s useless. Allowing us to cancel wouldn’t make the move
      any better, but at least we won’t auto-lose the round because we were a few pixels too far away for suplex
      to come out or weren’t frame-perfect on the OTG 720 input. It can even cost 2 bars like an FADC.

  • Slightly faster start up on normal sweep or st.RH

    • More wishful thinking than necessity. If EX GH remains non-KD, then implementing either one of these (but
      not both) would allow Gief just a bit more versatility in footsies at far range. Being able to whiff punish with
      sweep or tag jump-back a bit more effectively would help in the neutral game.

  • Complete air dominance and more range on U2 so it catches all backdashes and EX SRKs
    The purpose of this move is to coerce opponents to stay on the ground and discourage aerial escapes and
    reversals. So, it’s completely unacceptable that most characters can backdash out of U2 after EX hand and
    some can avoid it altogether with an EX SRK, with a couple of those characters (Seth and Akuma) being
    some of Gief’s worst matchups.

  • EX GH always 2 hits or always safe on hit

    • Just like normal GH, there’s no reason why Gief should get punished for landing a hit. EX Hand needs to be
      safe on hit, no matter how many hits connect or where it connects.

  • Slight damage buffs on LP, LK, st.MP, or on SPD/suplex

    • Many characters can hit confirm lights and mediums into combos that do 30%+ damage. Zangief isn’t
      supposed to be a combo character so his combos, of course, don’t do that much damage. But for the
      difficulty required, his LP SPD doesn’t do much damage either. It’s almost as if the roles are reversed.
      Zangief spends the match chipping away at the opponent, trying desperately to hold on to the life lead.
      And then a character like Akuma touches him once with a cr.MK and makes up all the damage Zangief just
      dealt and THEN puts him in a vortex situation. Isn’t that how Gief is supposed to work?

  • Focus attack should have a bigger (lower-extending) hitbox

    • I don’t see a reason why his (or any) FA should be crouchable. I understand if some things like Ryu or Juri
      cr.MK low profile it, but there are too many characters with problematic low attacks that FA just whiffs right
      over.

  • Lariat should be throw invincible for the first 2 or 3 frames

    • It can be crouched. It loses to or trades with all DPs. It has horrible recovery. It shouldn’t lose to throws
      too. As it stands, on wakeup Zangief has nothing throw invincible except SPD. It’s not a big deal against
      a lot of the cast, but makes some of his hard matchups (Seth, Akuma) that much more insurmountable.
      Lariat invincibility for the first couple frames would make Gief a lot less free to things like wake up DF grab.
      I’d even be willing to trade the ability to FADC lariat for this change.
52

Most of us have similar requests so it should easy to let Capcom know what we want. I will say this though, if they did nothing but make ex.gh kd again and always made it hit twice then I’d be happy.

53

I don’t think he needs anything I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he got nothing at all lol.

Things I really want:
St. MK -4 (or less) on hit from -8
EXGH Never One-Hit’s
Cr. Jab hitbox further increased downward

Other cool things I’d like but aren’t stupid:
Sweep hitbox Buff
Far. St RH hitbox buff
Cr. mp buff
Ultra 2 buff
Dash buff
Cr. Short +5 on hit from +4

54

He WILL need a lot of things because you’re forgetting that everyone else will likely be getting mad buffs, and he’s also not very good as he is now. Craploads of bad matchups where his options are very limited. I’m telling you, Gief needs an expanded toolset to survive the upcoming winter.

55

Some here actually think he doesn’t need much and I have no idea why they would think that but I agree with you 100%. What about mu’s like Juri, Ibuki, DeeJay, Abel, etc? I think all those iffy mu’s will all become worse for Gief and most of those are already bad imo. I really don’t see anything positive happening for Gief players, especially if the update pattern continues the way it has for this game.

56

This. I just looked at the character roster and, honestly, the only characters I think Zangief flat out beats are Yun, Yang, Dudley and Rufus. Every other matchup is either even (or really close to it) or Gief gets beat. And a few I just weren’t sure about.

57

I’m surprised chief, after EXGH combos, back dash SPD or back dash U2, makes one think again about reversal FADC.

58

Ibuki and Dee Jay are bad matchups? Since when? and when did Abel vs Gief stop being a 5-5?.

Please, Gief, as it stands, beats Dan, Dee Jay, Yang, Yun, Dudley, Rufus, Guy, Ibuki, Bison, Rose (arguably) and Ken, and only flat out loses to Dhalsim, Seth, Sagat and Honda. The rest are even or close to, don’t go nuts saying that Gief loses to everyone and has a hard time and we’re such loyal martyrs by standing by him so we deserve crazy buffs all over the place. Yes, as of right now he has some issues in some areas that should be patched, but some of the buffs I’m seeing here are crazy and will make Gief a crazy machine of big damage and great defense with his only hole being that he’s slow as hell. Come on guys, be real.

Choose one buff for U2, either bigger grab box, easier input or the ability to grab everything, they won’t give us 2 of those and 3 is crazy. I’d take the grab box buff since it’s the one I’d see happening (no way in hell will they make grabbing Seth’s EX Shoryu or Lariat FADC U2 a thing).

59

Get the hell out of here dude. What bizarre universe are you living in where Dee Jay and Rose aren’t bad matchups, Feilong and Akuma are “even/close” matchups (LOL) and Honda is one of his worst? Also you left out an enormous majority of the cast. What about Cammy’s oki setups where she can pin you down super easily and leave you unable to do ANYTHING, or the fact that T. Hawk and Hakan are easily able to shit all over Zangief with their superior normals and grab setups? You don’t have a clue what the fuck you’re talking about. I think you might be a troll because if not you’re fucking retarded.

60

It’s still not a great option. The best thing for the opponent to do after EX hand is backdash because U2 won’t catch it and we have to risk dash forward, GH or waste 3 bars for EX hand cancel. And that still loses to normal throw. And if they reversal with a light SRK, I’m pretty sure backdash U2 will whiff on most characters. In fact, in what scenario does backdash U2 work anyway? I feel like doing it after EX hand would leave you too far away to catch a jump back. I admit, backdash SPD isn’t bad, but if the opponent does nothing or backdashes (best option) then the situation is reset and Gief just lost all his pressure and a bar and got less than 200 damage. Unacceptable. The point is, as it stands now, the mixup after EX hand is dookie and the only 2 decisions the opponent ever has to make are backdash and reversal. Both beat SPD. Backdash beats dash forward and reversal beats everything except Gief’s backdash.

So, Gief doesn’t lose to Guile? He doesn’t lose to Akuma? I fought Infiltration at FR and I fight Four Wude (best Akuma in the U.S.) all the time. That matchup is near unwinnable. Explain to me how he beats Ibuki and Dee Jay, please. I admit I don’t know the Dee Jay matchup extensively but I can tell you that Ibuki is a terrible matchup and I’m so glad people don’t play that character. And did you forget about Chun Li? About Juri? And even those matchups that are in his favor are only 6-4 at the worst. If you can prove differently, I’d love to hear it. No sarcasm; I seriously want to know.