2013 Bison changes

Classic Fighting Games Street Fighter x Tekken
21

Ok, some thoughts after labbing it up.

Let’s get the bad out of the way first - EX Scissors sucks. I really really wanted to be able to self juggle off it, but you can’t. They say this is a big buff for him but you need two bars to switch your teammate in! I mean hell, you could do the same thing with EX Psycho Crusher if you really wanted to, although they don’t get launched as high. It might have some use (damage is pretty good but all the hits will scale down followups…) but I’m really disappointed in this.

I also wanted to maybe have it for possible Pandora setups (for the purposes of trolling), but that’s out too. Seems like the only valid ways to set up a Pandora combo is off j. MP-MP or HK Scissors.

Anyway. Close standing MP into crouching MP does not seem to work. Tried it many times but no go. HOWEVER, you can link close standing MP into FAR standing MP, which is of course bufferable and will work with anything you wanted to use crouching MP for, right?

Speaking of close standing MP, it seems that close standing MK got buffed too… I’m 99% sure it comes out in 5 frames just like close standing MP. I can definitely see a difference in it. This is good because this move would be worthless compared to close standing MP otherwise lol

Not sure what to think of the pushback on LK scissors just yet. I always liked to see how someone would react after blocked LK scissors… if they mashed on low jab or short, then the next time they blocked scissors I would raw launch them, lmao. Probably not possible anymore…

teleport nerf sucks, everyone knows that blah blah blah

With the buff to close standing MP and close standing MK, he has better options coming in off a teammate’s launcher. Close standing MP or close standing MK, and then standing HP xx Psycho Crusher works great midscreen, although it’s still a little tricky to time. Really wish I wasn’t still playing Julia since she seems to have the lowest height launcher in the game :frowning:

If that standing HK anti-air hitbox is true, oh my god. I went to training mode and tried using it against the Heihachi jump HK of doom, and most of the time it traded, sometimes it lost. So I’m not entirely convinced just yet.

Overall I’m still very happy with the changes and definitely plan to keep playing him. Throws stealing red life is so amazing~

22

Well dont try hk vs hetachi that beats a lot of stuff normally. But there is now a hitbox on his foot, im not having characters fall through his roundhouse and getting blown up for it like in vanilla. Someone confirm this

I’m keeping Bison too. He’s still got it- and might be better now.

edit- it might be placebo. It still has characters pass through it :confused:

23

Just playing around with 2013 Bison.

The changes to his MP’s make is BnB combo’s easier. The juggle from MK.SK is easier to land, and his tag in combo with LK.SK juggle is much easier to time as well.
Otherwise it doesn’t have alot of utility outside of that purpose. For the most part anywhere S.MP can now be combo-ed into, C.MK could of already been used in its place. With one exception.

Far Standing MP now links into itself.
So you can do cross up J.MK/HK, S.LP, S.MP, S.MP xx MK.SK, S.MP xx HP.Pyscho Crusher

His teleport looks and feels considerably slower alright. Seems very punishable most of the time, unless you get an auto correct teleport to the otherside of the screen when your opponent attempts a cross up.

24

s mp:
s mp is ridiculously good, it feels like the best poke, certainly the fastest
as mentioned by Azza, s mp (close or far) now links into itself. Use this to hit confirm into mk scissors to carry them to the corner or a launcher
partner launcher -> cl mp, s hp xx hp psycho is a lot easier now imo (~330 if raw launcher)
devil’s reverse -> cl mp, s mp, s mk, c hk is possible now outside of the corner, provided that the first hit is a close mp (258 damage)
headstomp, follow up-> s mp, s mp xx mk scissors, c mp xx hp psycho (343)

c mp:
dogura’s sf iv bnb bait (c lp, cl lp, s lk, walk back a bit c mk xx lk scissors) seems to work here, just use c mp instead

s hk:
I don’t see any changes to s hk
As far as ch s hk into slide, you could always do that, same w/ ch c hp as aa.

c hp:
I certainly don’t see any changes to c hp (60 damage for aa, wtf?)

j mk:
no discernable change imo

c mk:
range still sucks, no difference

ex scissors:
ex scissors seems like a waste of bar, but it seems to fill the gap between super damage and cross art.
keep in mind that your super does 325 (unscaled). Assuming a fairly plausible combo of:
cl mp, s mp, s hp xx super (396) vs:
cl mp, s mp, s hp xx ex scissors, ex tag (partner combo for 286), that only brings you to 426. the same partner combo gave me a cross art of 480 for 1 more bar.

25

The speed on far mp is ridiculous.

Did close mp always combo into hk scissors? This seems to be new.

Far mp definitely has more range than cr.mk, so you have much more leniency to confirm cr.mp -> st.mp xx whatever, close.mk -> st.mp xx whatever, and close hp -> st.mp xx whatever

Hitting mk scissors (juggle) -> far mp hp crusher is pretty easy.

So basically, it seems really easy to hit crossup j.mk -> close hp -> far mp xx mk scissors (juggle)-> far mp xx hp pc for 363 damage, which was much harder to hit when cr.mk was used instead of far mp.

Close mk doesn’t seem like it’s 5 frames. I couldn’t link it from any of the lights.

26

New BnBs off a couple of hours in the lab:

  1. Empty jump low: [jump], cr. LK, cl. LK, st. MP xx MK Scissors, st. MP xx HP Psycho = 263.
    You can hit-confirm this and go into LK Scissors if you’ve been blocked. Or you can just walk forward throw after the cl. LK. You can also go into launcher on hit, as normal.

  2. Cross-up MK combo: j.MK, cl. HP, st. MP xx MK Scissors, st. MP xx HP Psycho = 363.
    This combo got much easier with the st. MP link, and the fact that you can now link off of cl. HP adds damage and makes it a great frame trap. Vary this combo by switching cl. MP for cl. HP once in a while.

For frame trap pressure, you can now do cl. HP, walk forward cl. MP, and hit confirm that into st. MP into launcher or the combo above.

Your quickest walking pressure can now be cl. LK, cl. LK, st. MP. On hit-confirm, go into launcher. On block, you’re safe and at frame advantage so bait a reversal or go for the throw.

His speed buffs to cl. MP also make all his tag-in combos easier. There’s now no reason that cl. MP, st. HP xx HP Psycho can’t be 100% consistent, even with low launchers.

In several situations where you get an air-to-air counter hit, you can now do cl. MP, st. HP xx HP Psycho much more easily.

Also, as other people have been saying, st. MP xx LK Scissors is now looking like one of his best medium-range pressure tools. Still -2 on block, and frankly I don’t mind that there’s more pushback. That puts you closer to the range you want to be anyway (namely, st. MK range). I’d rather be closer if I was at frame advantage, but given that you’re at -2, I am fine with it.

Cross Art buff is always good to see, since Cross Art is one of the main ways I anti-air with Bison :smiley:

EX Scissor “buff” - don’t bother. You can get more damage with two bars just by going into launcher then Super, or tag canceling yourself back in.

27

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28

You can maybe setup some high/low mixup off EX-Scissor kicks switch.

I haven’t tested it out but you might be able to do something funky like anti air toward the corner with j.MP, j.MP, s.MP, s.HP xx Scissor (hold), release when they quick getup, switch and jump or something when Bison’s EX-Scissor starts rolling into the low slide. This would just cost one meter for the switch since the EX-Scissor would be free off the 51~99f charge up

29

It’s hard to say if that is worth 2 meters. Do it again with no infinite/refill. If it generates enough in return off the hits then it’s not bad for 1.25~1.50 bar combo.

30

Looks like I need a new partner? Not sure what you’re saying :slight_smile:

EDIT: Switched from Bryan to Hworang to compare damage on this…yeah, I think I need a new partner.

31

Went back and checked this on 1.06 on PC. It didn’t combo, so it seems like a stealth buff.
Not sure how they achieved this. The move was already +5 on hit in vanilla. They seem to have shortened the recovery but I don’t see how this helps him combo into HK.SK.

Was also checking for other stealth buffs/nerfs. Checked all his moves and everything seems the same. Chip damage for all moves is unchanged.

Currently I see little point using EX.SK in combo’s when his Super Art will land him more damage. I suspect normal tag in combo’s would net him more damage too.

I think where the comparison should be made the 2 moves is as a fireball punisher.
Super Art is 2 frames quicker. Both travel about the same distance to the first hit. Both are completely projectile invincible.
However I think EX.SK nets more damage with basic enough combo’s than the Super Art and any combo after the tag will gain a bit of meter back so its a bit more meter economical as well.

32

Another change I am loving: the st. MP now combos off of cl. MK, which is incredibly easy to confirm as cl. MK leaves you at +7 on hit. Previously, the other 5-frame medium move you had for these kinds of combos, cr. MK, just wouldn’t reach.

This also gives you a perfect (beats 3-frame normals) frame trap on block: cl. MK, then st. MP xx LK scissors if they’re blocking. You get your 30 damage of chip, you’re completely safe, and at the perfect range to do it again (after waiting 2-3 frames for the frame disadvantage from the LK Scissors wears off).

Buffs!

33

Holy shit, I have to try this. Dropping Guile on point for M. Bison most likely in 2013 so I’m very happy to hear this kind of stuff!